[DavidKok]

I play that 1♣-1♥; 2♣ can be five, and that 1♣-1♥; 2♣-2♦ is a generic GF not promising any particular hand (though a few special ones are ruled out by failure to jump rebid by responder).
On this auction and some other related ones I prefer to raise on 3 cards over rebidding our minor suit, so those hands are ruled out and don't require bidding sequences on this start.

[pescetom]

It's an interesting drift and I encourage continuation either here on in a spin off thread.

But I am also aware that patience and attention are limited, especially at weekends

So here is what was going on on the other side.

---

Your second bid as Responder?

[DavidKok]

3♥, setting trumps and showing slam interest, demanding a control bid.

[mike777]

You didn't mention how you show the hand with 4h and long minor, weakish hand.

I suppose you can pass 2c with 11 card fit, 4h, but and weak hand.

But how do you bid the hand with h and d and weak?

[mike777]

 pescetom, on 2026-April-11, 12:58, said:

It's an interesting drift and I encourage continuation either here on in a spin off thread.

But I am also aware that patience and attention are limited, especially at weekends

So here is what was going on on the other side.

---

Your second bid as Responder?

2d then 3h over 3d

Remember opener has shown short h.

[Cyberyeti]

pescetom, on 2026-April-11, 12:58, said:

---

Your second bid as Responder?

2♦ bourke style artificial

[pescetom]

mike777, on 2026-April-11, 13:27, said:

You didn't mention how you show the hand with 4h and long minor, weakish hand.

I suppose you can pass 2c with 11 card fit, 4h, but and weak hand.

But how do you bid the hand with h and d and weak?

I bid the weak hand with 4 card hearts and long diamonds using judgement and an eye on vulnerability, like we do with so many other problem hands within a natural system.
With decent hearts show them and then listen carefully to decide what to do next, otherwise ignore them and weak jump diamonds.
I can see the issue but I don't remember it even coming up, let alone being a problem worth a convention.

[pescetom]

DavidKok, on 2026-April-11, 13:03, said:

3♥, setting trumps and showing slam interest, demanding a control bid.

As I play... but others might play this as a NF invite.

mike777, on 2026-April-11, 13:28, said:

2d then 3h over 3d
Remember opener has shown short h.

And does 3H set trumps such that 4C/4D are control-bids?
What do we do with slam interest in diamonds and hearts control?

Cyberyeti, on 2026-April-11, 14:35, said:

2♦ bourke style artificial

And then?

[mike777]

No, it does not demand H are trumps, but certainly encourages that. Again I cant ever remember this problem coming up, but always interesting to discuss.

Over 3D and slam interest I would probably just bid 4D, then 4h would be kickback, ace asking.

[pescetom]

mike777, on 2026-April-11, 15:55, said:

No, it does not demand H are trumps, but certainly encourages that. Again I cant ever remember this problem coming up, but always interesting to discuss.

That was my initial doubt about 2D not promising 5+ hearts.
After reflection I agree it is playable (not surprising if it turns out it was published in TBW in 1996 ) but I think that in that case a hearts rebid does have to set trumps, otherwise we are on shaky ground.

mike777, on 2026-April-11, 15:55, said:

Over 3D and slam interest I would probably just bid 4D, then 4h would be kickback, ace asking.

I prefer to be able to control-bid in diamonds, with or without kickback.
I can live with just 4D asking for a control-bid including 4H, but I would prefer that a jump to 4H is kickback in diamonds too (it makes little sense otherwise).

[Zelandakh]

Some generic rules for agreeing diamonds at the 3 level:
If 3♦ explicitly establishes slam interest, then 3♥ is frivolous (usually declining a slam try) and 3♠+ are control cues/asks with serious slam interest.
If 3♦ is only GF, 3M is initially a 3NT probe but can become an advance (denial) cue; 4♣ demands a cue auction (with 4♦ used for ♣); 4♦ is a general slam try; 4♥ is RKCB.

As with all such generic rules, they do need to be adapted to the specific auction.

[mw64ahw]

mw64ahw, on 2026-April-11, 05:26, said:

I like a 2♣ rebid to show six so it comes down to methods. If partner bids 1♥ are you in the camp that bids 1N with a singleton or not?

Playing a 1♦ opening I expect partner to bid 1♠ as a game invite. Now opener responds 1N showing a 5431 type shape. Responder with extras bids 2♣ asking for specific shape with 2♦ showing 5♦ and other bids 5♣.

Methods help with 3♥ unambiguously being a self-sustaining Heart suit looking at a slam knowing that partner is likely to be 3145. 3♣ after 2N would have asked for the shortage.

---

[P_Marlowe]

pescetom, on 2026-April-11, 12:58, said:

It's an interesting drift and I encourage continuation either here on in a spin off thread.

But I am also aware that patience and attention are limited, especially at weekends

So here is what was going on on the other side.

---

Your second bid as Responder?

Now it depends on methods, ... but I would go with 2D (NMF), plannng to bid 3H, setting trumps.

[P_Marlowe]

pescetom, on 2026-April-11, 15:23, said:

As I play... but others might play this as a NF invite.



And does 3H set trumps such that 4C/4D are control-bids?
What do we do with slam interest in diamonds and hearts control?



And then?

After 3H, 4C/4D are control bids.
Opener can raise to 3D to located a diamond fit, bidding 3D over openers
answer to 2D showes a strong 2-suited hand.

[Cyberyeti]

1♣-1♥
2♣-2♦(inv+ artificial)
3♦ (nat max GF)-3♥ (suit setting)
3N (suggestive of no spade cue and 3145/2146 14-15)

Now 6♥ will follow

[pescetom]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-April-12, 02:58, said:

1♣-1♥
2♣-2♦(inv+ artificial)
3♦ (nat max GF)-3♥ (suit setting)
3N (suggestive of no spade cue and 3145/2146 14-15)

Now 6♥ will follow

Which works if you agree that:
- the diamonds relay can be bid on any hand with 4+ hearts
- Opener's priority then is to show 3 card hearts
- if instead Opener "raises" diamonds then 3♥ is suit setting and invites control-bid/Non-Serious (or your preferred alternative in hearts).
This in turn allows you to retain a jump of Responder to 3♥ as a natural NF Inv, which is useful and more instinctive than GF imposing trumps.

which is the conclusion I was tending towards after reading this discussion.

[Cyberyeti]

pescetom, on 2026-April-12, 11:15, said:

Which works if you agree that:
- the diamonds relay can be bid on any hand with 4+ hearts
- Opener's priority then is to show 3 card hearts
- if instead Opener "raises" diamonds then 3♥ is suit setting and invites control-bid/Non-Serious (or your preferred alternative in hearts).
This in turn allows you to retain a jump of Responder to 3♥ as a natural NF Inv, which is useful and more instinctive than GF imposing trumps.

which is the conclusion I was tending towards after reading this discussion.

2N is bad with 4♦ NF over the relay, so 3♦ is the good hand GF, your scheme can be even better if you play the relay GF.

[pescetom]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-April-12, 11:45, said:

2N is bad with 4♦ NF over the relay, so 3♦ is the good hand GF, your scheme can be even better if you play the relay GF.

Sure, I was assuming relay GF.

I currently try to agree Responder's jump to 3♥ as GF imposing trumps (similar to DavidKok), but that is problematic as our standard system defines it as a natural invite and many partners forget or object. Going through the relay OTOH fits well in our system which has several similar artificial GF bids saying "Do something intelligent, starting with a 3 card raise of my major".

[pescetom]

MP

---

Here is the full diagram.

I was Director, but noticed the board because it was going slowly at all tables. Only two pairs found 6♥, with others in 4♥+2 plus the inevitable 3NT+3.

I asked here about the unopposed auction, but some Souths will bid 1 or 2 ♦ which whether wise or not complicates things further for club players.

[Cyberyeti]

pescetom, on 2026-April-12, 13:02, said:

I asked here about the unopposed auction, but some Souths will bid 2♦ which whether wise or not complicates things further for club players.

Well gives them the additional option of taking 800 out of 2♦x (I can see 1100 is not out of the question)