[mw64ahw]

This is a two part challenge a) can you get to the optimal contract, and b) can you make it?
Partner made a good effort albeit with what I would describe as an odd auction.

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[mikeh]

How we’re supposed to guess the ‘optimal contract’ when not knowing what opener has is a mystery.

Opposite xx QJxx KJx AKQx I want to play game in notrump, but won’t be able to without, imo, misbidding.

Opposite KJxx AKxx KJx xx I want to be in 7S. Since both hands are 1N opening bids, assuming 15-17, I think the better question is ‘plan your likely auction’.

Presumably, absent a super accept by opener of our 2H transfer, we intend to force to game while showing diamonds, since when partner holds, say, xx AKxx KJxx Axx we’d like to play 6D.

[mw64ahw]

pescetom, on 2026-April-10, 14:22, said:

Something wrong in the diagram: is this the hand of East and if not, what did East call?

Corrected

[pescetom]

I would start with a 2♥ transfer to spades and then (without the improbable super accept) a 3♣ secondary transfer to diamonds.

[apollo1201]

Same as the others, the beginning is rather easy, transfer to S and bid D if nothing special happens.

Methods might impact whether you play 3D as 5+ or just 4+ (with 2NT nat invite or GF relay).

Anyway, it is just the beginning as the tricky part starts when partner s 3NT comes next, another go with 4D or just 4S?

[mw64ahw]

A straightforward start taking the double transfer approach.
If 3♦ suits you better take it from there.

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[Cyberyeti]

Our weak NT auction would start 1♦-2♠ so would not be useful here and would get to 7♦ trivially.

However, I would not open the N hand 1N, it is all aces and kings and has very nice intermediates, I would rate it as closer to 19 than 17, and certainly a decent 18 (K&R as a sense check says 18.5)

[apollo1201]

 mw64ahw, on 2026-April-11, 02:06, said:

A straightforward start taking the double transfer approach.
If 3♦ suits you better take it from there.

if it promises 55, an easy 4D Intending to push high even if opposite can it only be a 10 count. The hand with AKA in the short suits + KS and K to 4th has become truly enormous. I d probably have opened 1D planning to rebid 2NT. Then it is pain sailing.

If it can be a 5431 hand, we are facing the problem of diamonds that do not allow to cue below 3NT that clubs are stopped well in case it is your sg. If partner sg is in H I do not want to play 3NT, if it is in C I would.

Things are going to be murky then. I guess it has to be an ambiguous 3S (I do not like it too much but I cannot cue 3H with blank ace), partner is not supposed to bid 4S with 5 (unless H are wide open). But here they probably will bid sth else and we will hopefully survive. I am not 100% at ease with this recommended treatment where I live but I only had it once IRL but twice here on the forums haha. And it was very controversial for ppl of other countries ( if not fitted your 3S will be slower…). I might even forget it and bid 4D at IMPs.

[Zelandakh]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-April-11, 03:50, said:

Our weak NT auction would start 1♦-2♠ so would not be useful here and would get to 7♦ trivially.

If the scoring is MP, would you not prefer 7NT when you find out about ♠K, ♥A, ♦Kxxx and ♣AK? I think the maths there depends on how many of the other pairs you expect to reach grand, making the OP's "optimal contract" tricky to identify. In terms of OP's other question, we're probably not making 7♦ if the opening lead is a spade from ♠JT762!

[P_Marlowe]

mw64ahw, on 2026-April-11, 02:06, said:

A straightforward start taking the double transfer approach.
If 3♦ suits you better take it from there.

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I am not sure, if 3C was already pf, and if it is 55 or could be 54.
Anyway assuming inv.+, if yes you set trumps and show SI, I would do this via 4D.
Depending how strict you are, and assuming 55, p would know, that you have a fit, if you play those 2ways
xfers, you should know, how to set trumps in a forcing manner.
Over 4D South bids 4S (or if this could still be a constructed as a place to play) 5C, and you will end up
in 6D. I am not sure, I have the patience to find out, if 7D has sensible play.

[mw64ahw]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-April-11, 03:50, said:

Our weak NT auction would start 1♦-2♠ so would not be useful here and would get to 7♦ trivially.

However, I would not open the N hand 1N, it is all aces and kings and has very nice intermediates, I would rate it as closer to 19 than 17, and certainly a decent 18 (K&R as a sense check says 18.5)

Most of the field were playing a Weak NT, but the contracts split evenly between NT, ♦ & ♠

[Zelandakh]

P_Marlowe, on 2026-April-11, 05:26, said:

I am not sure, if 3C was already pf, and if it is 55 or could be 54.
Anyway assuming inv.+, if yes you set trumps and show SI, I would do this via 4D.
Depending how strict you are, and assuming 55, p would know, that you have a fit, if you play those 2ways
xfers, you should know, how to set trumps in a forcing manner.
Over 4D South bids 4S (or if this could still be a constructed as a place to play) 5C, and you will end up
in 6D. I am not sure, I have the patience to find out, if 7D has sensible play.

As the poster that has pushed second round transfers most on these forums, I can suggest a framework and mw64 can tell us where it is not right:
Responder's second round transfer is GF with 4+ in second suit
After Opener bids 3♦, 3NT and 4♠ are choice of game; 3♥ is a slam try (frivolous); 3♠, 4♣ and 4♦ are serious control asks/shows, 4♥ is RKCB and 5♣ is XRKCB

If you follow this through, South will eventually find out about all of North's picture cards with the possible exception of ♣K (if they go directly to Exclusion without checking on the heart control). CY's point is also well made that the North hand can, for pairs that aggressively upgrade, easily be too good for a (14+-17) 1NT opening. Quoting KnR though is generally a poor basis for NT upgrades, as that evaluation system, like LTC, is designed primarily for suit contracts.

[mw64ahw]

Zelandakh, on 2026-April-11, 06:00, said:

As the poster that has pushed second round transfers most on these forums, I can suggest a framework and mw64 can tell us where it is not right:
Responder's second round transfer is GF with 4+ in second suit
After Opener bids 3♦, 3NT and 4♠ are choice of game; 3♥ is a slam try (frivolous); 3♠, 4♣ and 4♦ are serious control asks/shows, 4♥ is RKCB and 5♣ is XRKCB

If you follow this through, South will eventually find out about all of North's picture cards with the possible exception of ♣K (if they go directly to Exclusion without checking on the heart control). CY's point is also well made that the North hand can, for pairs that aggressively upgrade, easily be too good for a (14+-17) 1NT opening. Quoting KnR though is generally a poor basis for NT upgrades, as that evaluation system, like LTC, is designed primarily for suit contracts.

---

[P_Marlowe]

Zelandakh, on 2026-April-11, 06:00, said:

As the poster that has pushed second round transfers most on these forums, I can suggest a framework and mw64 can tell us where it is not right:
Responder's second round transfer is GF with 4+ in second suit
After Opener bids 3♦, 3NT and 4♠ are choice of game; 3♥ is a slam try (frivolous); 3♠, 4♣ and 4♦ are serious control asks/shows, 4♥ is RKCB and 5♣ is XRKCB

If you follow this through, South will eventually find out about all of North's picture cards with the possible exception of ♣K (if they go directly to Exclusion without checking on the heart control). CY's point is also well made that the North hand can, for pairs that aggressively upgrade, easily be too good for a (14+-17) 1NT opening. Quoting KnR though is generally a poor basis for NT upgrades, as that evaluation system, like LTC, is designed primarily for suit contracts.

So how do I set diamonds? 3S instead of 3D I guess, would show the spade fit.
Not bidding 3S, would deny 3+ spades, but this means, opener may still have only 3 diamonds.
I can see, that one would / could bid 3NT with only 2S, 3D, saying we have 8 cards in the
other suits.

If 3D showes the fit, this is a no brainer, than I would bid 3S, denying a heart control.
Opener can bid 4C, club control and implying a heart control.

Followed by 4D, stalling, followed by 4H (first round control in hearts) or 4S (King of spades
may be more valuable information, Ace of herats can be find out via RKCB).
Responder checks for Aces, counts 5spades, 6 diamonds (ruff), 2 Aces, makes 13, bids 7D.

[Cyberyeti]

Zelandakh, on 2026-April-11, 05:17, said:

If the scoring is MP, would you not prefer 7NT when you find out about ♠K, ♥A, ♦Kxxx and ♣AK? I think the maths there depends on how many of the other pairs you expect to reach grand, making the OP's "optimal contract" tricky to identify. In terms of OP's other question, we're probably not making 7♦ if the opening lead is a spade from ♠JT762!

Zero in my club, any grand will be good, 7♦ covers spades 4-1 if diamonds not 4-0.

[Zelandakh]

P_Marlowe, on 2026-April-11, 07:17, said:

So how do I set diamonds? 3S instead of 3D I guess, would show the spade fit.
Not bidding 3S, would deny 3+ spades, but this means, opener may still have only 3 diamonds.
I can see, that one would / could bid 3NT with only 2S, 3D, saying we have 8 cards in the
other suits.

The simple way is 3♦ sets diamonds, 3♠ sets spades, 3♥ denies either fit (2♠+3♦). I like any other call to show a double fit but you do need a solid partner to use 3NT that way. After 3♦, my choice would be 4♦ - serious slam interest and asking about a heart control. Implied within that is control in both black suits. That leads us to a discussion about slam methods though, which is probably out of scope for this thread. For whatever reason, there are still not so many players around using DCBs and Asking Bids.

[Zelandakh]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-April-11, 10:42, said:

Zero in my club, any grand will be good, 7♦ covers spades 4-1 if diamonds not 4-0.

Yeah, that was sort of the point. At Teams or in a weak field, you want the safest grand which is diamonds. But if you expect enough of the opposition to bid it, the odds on 7NT are above 50% so at some point it is EV+ to be in NT.

[mike777]

I hope we would get to the Diamond grand, but not easy. Lots of room for misunderstanding, here. Bidding with a void is a warning sign of confusion.

example of confusion yesterday in our local MP sectional:

1H-1S
2D-3C!
3NT-4NT
6C??

I was the 6C bidder, partner had no idea what my bid meant....
Partner's hand was:

KQJT92..Void...ATx...AK9x