[ahydra]

Not sure if "slam" is an American Football term? Anyway, these came up last night. Playing matchpoints, weak NT, 4cM.

1) ♠AKxx ♥Ax ♦Q108xx ♣9x

RHO opens 1NT (12-14) in third seat. Everybody is vul. Your methods are 2C = both majors, otherwise natural. Bid or pass?

2) ♠AKQx ♥10xxxx ♦AKQx ♣ ---

You deal, everybody is nonvul. After the unopposed auction 1H-1NT (NF nat 5-9), do you pick 2S, 3D, or something else?

3) ATB (everybody is nonvul):

---

2D is multi (weak 2 in a major or a strong two in a minor or some big-ish balanced). The X of 2D is "takeout" and we didn't really have an agreement about the X of 2H, except that it shows some values (3H instead by East shows an INV hand, 5 hearts). X of 4S was penalty.

6H makes easily when the clubs split. Who should have done more, or is it not an easily-reachable slam after the multi?

Thanks,

ahydra

[Fluffy]

1) opps vulnerable, pass and try for 200.

2) The contracts playable are 3NT and 5♦, wich bid helps us to know wich is better? .... 3♦, because it endplays partner into bidding 3♥ with doubleton (making 3NT attractive) or something else (making 5♦ attractive, and 6♦ remotelly possible)

3) I can't believe that you don't know what double of 2♥ is but you know what 3♥ shows. Looks to me you are west and wanna blame partner. If 3♥ shows an invitational hand and double is undiscussed it is easy to see where the problem is: someone made an undiscussed bid instead of using a perfect bid for his hand. But I doubt this is the case. Your lack of agreements is the main at fault.

[Zelandakh]

1. Pass, then change the methods.
2. I would bid ♦ but am tempted to go low without jumping given the likely misfit.
3. Both. West could have gone for a Leaping Michaels overcall; East seems to be representing a hand with some spades and only secondary heart support.

[Codo]

1. pass and it is time for a change...

2. 2♦, I have the playing strength for a jump, but I dislike my main suit... If partner can cooperate with 2 ♠, I will make a mild slam try, after others bids I try for the right game....

3. X of 2 ♦as take out of diamonds is silly, play it as take out of spades, makes more sense. Later, I do not understand Easts double of 4 Spade with 5 cards for partner, a side shortness and often just one spade trick. But the main problem is the missing understanding of the early bidding. How can you have a convincing bidding if the second bid is unknown? If the double shows some values without hearts, East should go for slam over 4 ♥. If it shows hearts, 4 ♥ was a candidate for the underbid of the year. But who will you blame, if you do not know what the double shows?

[ahydra]

Thanks for responses so far, here's some clarification:

Fluffy said:

3) I can't believe that you don't know what double of 2♥ is but you know what 3♥ shows. Looks to me you are west and wanna blame partner. If 3♥ shows an invitational hand and double is undiscussed it is easy to see where the problem is: someone made an undiscussed bid instead of using a perfect bid for his hand.

Technically both the X and 3H are undiscussed. From similar auctions over weak 2s we would deduce that X shows about 8 points or more and is for takeout and 3H shows the INV hand with 5 (maybe 4) cards. I'm not convinced a scrappy 9-count opposite an X that could be a flat 13 counts as INV (at MPs), but I guess the hand does have shape.

Zelandakh, on 2012-October-19, 06:51, said:

1. Pass, then change the methods.

To what? I.e. what is your preferred defence to weak NT.

Codo, on 2012-October-19, 08:21, said:

1. pass and it is time for a change...

Again, to what?

Quote

3. X of 2 ♦as take out of diamonds is silly

It's not takeout of diamonds, it's just takeout. So roughly "any good ~12+ not suitable for a suit overcall, or any ~18+ unbal, or any ~20+ BAL".

Quote

Later, I do not understand Easts double of 4 Spade with 5 cards for partner

You mean 5-card trump support? The thing is that if you aren't sure whether the X shows hearts (there was some brief discussion where we figured the X should probably show hearts because if multi's partner wanted hearts they would bid 2S, but we never came to a conclusion on it) then you don't know if partner has 3 hearts or 5.

ahydra

[Zelandakh]

ahydra, on 2012-October-19, 08:41, said:

To what? I.e. what is your preferred defence to weak NT.

My favourite defence is called ZANT, a mix of Asptro, French and Multi-Landy. In ZANT this hand is a 2♣ overcall - that shows 4♠, 5+ minor or both majors or 4(5)♠ + 3-4♥ + 3-4 ♦ over a weak NT. A bit like Sharples in fact so maybe I should add that to the list of influences. It used to be that the most popular defences in EBUland were Astro based, with Asptro being the king of these. That would give you an easy 2♦ overcall on this hand, for example.

[Codo]

Against weak NT I would play multi landy and penalty doubles. But this had not solved the problem of this hand either, because 2 ♠ usually shows 5 spades and 4+ in the minor. There are many schemes which can show the 4 M 5 m hand type too. I do not play one, but just "natural" is not enough, because you cannot show your two-suiters.

Against the multi I prefer to play X of 2 ♦ and 2♦ pass 2 ♥ as take out of spades or the strong hands- if you are used to 18 or 20, this is fine.
Jumps are strong, jumps in minors are Twosuiters with an unknown major.

I do not see much sense to show the hand type: 12-14 HCPS, balanced. And the given hand is a good example why. What is partner supposed to do? If he had known that you have a very strong hand or a take out of spades, he could have bid 3 ♥.

[ahydra]

Thanks for responses all. On the first one I bid 2D which of course was a disaster, one off against a non-making 1NT, worse still partner had four good spades. Lesson learnt. Are there any vulnerabilities where people would bid?

On the second hand I went 2S - natural reverse - but I see nobody is telling me to bid that, no doubt because partner can't have four spades. If I'd bid 3D instead then we would have found diamonds easily, for partner's hand was ♠J ♥x ♦J1098xx ♣KQxxx.

To be honest, we still should have got there, but this happened: 1H-1NT; 2S-3C; 3D (intended as natural but taken as 4SF)-3H; pass. I don't understand why partner bid 3C instead of 3D (he mentioned something about showing stops for NT, but last I checked J1098xx is still a stop )

The third hand, Fluffy, I was actually East Judging my pile of quacks to not be worth an INV bid, I went for the X to "make some noise" and partner jumped to 4H showing a good hand. I thought I could easily double 4S opposite a huge hand with what might be two trump tricks. When partner pulled my penX of 4S I strongly considered bidding slam but didn't like my lack of aces and the non-fit in clubs.

I wonder if partner should do something else over 2S, e.g. 3S or X. Playing Leaping Michaels doesn't sound like a bad idea (4C over 2S), but even with that, what is the difference between X-then-jump, X-then-cue, X-then-X and a direct jump?

ahydra

ps. Zelandakh, how do you distinguish between those three types after 2C? Surely there's not enough room...

[Fluffy]

First of all, you are not playing a take out double of 2♦ you are playing a value showing double.

doubling 2♥ to just show values without anything related to hearts is a style far from mainstream, shape is very important on this game.

over a real take out double of a 3 level preempt 9 HCP hands are forcing to game even without 5c suits. Opposite 2 level preempts we have more space, and 8-10 hands normally invite since lebensohl etc lets you show weaker hands and this is a bit better. For this concrete hand you are right that the honnor structure is pretty bad, but 5431 shape is great. 2443 would be much worse.

over multi, try to show shape rather than points to avoid confussion, use double for balanced hands or single suited monsters. It is impossibe to show a 2 suiter if you start with double, leaping michaels is best.

Quote

On the first one I bid 2D which of course was a disaster, one off against a non-making 1NT, worse still partner had four good spades. Lesson learnt. Are there any vulnerabilities where people would bid?

Yes, nobody vul at MPs its for real men, I instabid 5cM on that vulnerability (+110 outscores +100 and -100 outscores -120), diamonds are not that good, but I would still bid them, that way I migh bid 2♠ over 2♥ next.

please note that bidding a 5c suit at the 2 level is normally a bad idea, but knowing RHO to be balanced changes the odds, the suit is no longer 5-1 nor 4-1 behind.

[Fluffy]

BTW 2♣ majors and rest nat is better than many methods played around the world, there are better ones for sure but for a pick up partnership is more than ok.

[Zelandakh]

ahydra, on 2012-October-20, 04:07, said:

ps. Zelandakh, how do you distinguish between those three types after 2C? Surely there's not enough room...

Assuming Advancer is not strong, they initially assume the 3-suited type and respond accordingly, giving preference between diamonds, hearts and spades. If the Overcaller has the 3-suited type they can simply pass. If Advancer bids 2♦, then Overcaller passes with spades and diamonds, bids 2♥ with the majors, or bids 2♠ with spades and clubs. If Advancer bids 2♥, Overcaller passes with the majors or bids 2♠ with spades and a longer minor (either minor). In effect, it is simply using pass/correct bids to scramble a fit.

[Fluffy]

I must admit my first reaction with ♠AKQx ♥10xxxx ♦AKQx was o rebid 2♠, and bid 3♦ next, however I realiced how good 3♦ is towards finding singleton heart in partner's hand. First instinct is always to show hand to partner, but never forget that the main objective of the bidding is to reach a good contract not to show your hand.

[lowerline]

• I would double only if that shows a 4crd major with a 5crd or longer in a minor. Otherwise pass.
• 3♦. Why would I bid 2♠?
• I agree with West's double (because he is too strong to pass or to overcall 2♥). I disagree with East's double (this is takeout and he doesn't have the shape for it). After (2♦)-dbl-(2♥)-p-(2♠)-3♥-(3/4♠) East can judge 6♥ must have some play if West controls diamonds.

Steven

ahydra, on 2012-October-19, 05:21, said:

Not sure if "slam" is an American Football term? Anyway, these came up last night. Playing matchpoints, weak NT, 4cM.

1) ♠AKxx ♥Ax ♦Q108xx ♣9x

RHO opens 1NT (12-14) in third seat. Everybody is vul. Your methods are 2C = both majors, otherwise natural. Bid or pass?

2) ♠AKQx ♥10xxxx ♦AKQx ♣ ---

You deal, everybody is nonvul. After the unopposed auction 1H-1NT (NF nat 5-9), do you pick 2S, 3D, or something else?

3) ATB (everybody is nonvul):

---

2D is multi (weak 2 in a major or a strong two in a minor or some big-ish balanced). The X of 2D is "takeout" and we didn't really have an agreement about the X of 2H, except that it shows some values (3H instead by East shows an INV hand, 5 hearts). X of 4S was penalty.

6H makes easily when the clubs split. Who should have done more, or is it not an easily-reachable slam after the multi?

Thanks,

ahydra

[kuhchung]

1. I would pass, and I wouldn't change the methods.