[wyman]

We were considering recently followups to opps' penX of our 1N. We decided that the following was reasonable, but I'm interested in what you guys play, as well as a few questions below.

1N (X)
.............XX: Scramble, usually 4333
.............2-any: DONT (4+/4+)
.............Pass: forces XX, to play or any one-suited drop.

* Obviously we can swap the 2-any and the pass-2any sequences, but I don't have a good sense of which would be better.
* Should the DONT bids be 4+/4+ or should, e.g., a 4432 hand be rolled into the scramble?
* When making a "penalty" pass, it would be great if the result was the ability to play 1Nx, rather than 1Nxx. At MP, there's little upside from the XX, and at IMPs, since it's a game, they may not sit for it when we're right. So it seems that the ability to play 1Nx is valuable, but that removes half our sequences, so I don't see a good way to do that.

[Quartic]

I play halmic:

1NT - (X) - XX = any 5+ suit
1NT - (X) - 2 suit = 4+ that suit, and 4+ higher ranking suit
1NT - (X) - 2♠ = 5+ spades, pre-emptive
1NT - (X) - 3 suit = nat, pre-emptive (6+ suit, usually reasonable quality)

These also apply after a 4th seat X.

I also play:

1NT - (X) - P - (P) - XX as showing a 5+ suit, giving responder the option to run (bid 2♣) or pass for penalties.
With responder's 4333 opposite opener's 4333 or 4432, we just sit for the double.

This doesn't apply after a 4th seat X though.

[mikeh]

I have played several methods (I used to play a lot of 10-12 1N openings and still play 11-14 on occasion, so runouts are a good idea).

My preference is:

2♣: clubs and hearts
2♦: diamonds and hearts
2♥: majors
2♠ to play, but partner is allowed to raise with 4 cards and a suitable hand
xx: two-suits that do not include hearts
P: forces a redouble: any 1-suiter or penalty
2N: gf 5-5 or better any suits, we bid up the line: responder will rebid a major over a minor even with a minor fit found....we can go back to the minor later if need be
3 level: weak (more accurately: to play)



Another one:

2♣: minors
2♦: reds
2♥: majors, hearts at least as good as spades
2♠: blacks, with spades equal to or better than clubs
xx: one suiter
P: forces redouble over which:

2♣: clubs and hearts
2♦: diamonds and spades
2♥: majors, spades better than hearts
2♠: blacks: 4 spades, longer clubs

2N as above

3 level bids (directly or after a forced redouble) show the same suits but wilder shape/playing strength, and opener can raise to game.

[brian_m]

wyman, on 2012-March-21, 09:07, said:

We were considering recently followups to opps' penX of our 1N. We decided that the following was reasonable, but I'm interested in what you guys play, as well as a few questions below.

1N (X)
.............XX: Scramble, usually 4333
.............2-any: DONT (4+/4+)
.............Pass: forces XX, to play or any one-suited drop.

* Obviously we can swap the 2-any and the pass-2any sequences, but I don't have a good sense of which would be better.
* Should the DONT bids be 4+/4+ or should, e.g., a 4432 hand be rolled into the scramble?
* When making a "penalty" pass, it would be great if the result was the ability to play 1Nx, rather than 1Nxx. At MP, there's little upside from the XX, and at IMPs, since it's a game, they may not sit for it when we're right. So it seems that the ability to play 1Nx is valuable, but that removes half our sequences, so I don't see a good way to do that.

When playing Acol weak, I like SWINE as a runout. BridgeGuys list it as Twisted Swine, I think that's because Goldsmith's version reversed most of the sequences after pass and redouble.

Anyway, here's the link

http://www.bridgeguy...ineTwisted.html

[Zelandakh]

David Stevenson's site has an excellent selection of possible schemes. It lists your given defence as Rolfe. My personal choice is a modification of Spelvic where:-

Pass forces Redouble, either to play there or with various other hands (see below)
Redouble forces 2♣ with a 1-suited hand
2♣ shows clubs and spades
2♦ shows diamonds and spades
2♥ shows the majors with equal or better spades
2♠ is natural
2NT shows at least 5-5 in the minors
and higher bids are natural and preemptive

After 1NT - (X) - P - (P); XX - P,
Pass is to play
2♣ shows clubs and a red suit
2♦ shows diamonds and hearts
2♥ shows the majors with better hearts
higher bids show freak GF hands

With a 4333 hand you treat the hand as if it had an extra club and then redouble if the opponenta double you in clubs. So
4♠333 bids 2♣
4♥333 passes, then bids 2♣ over partner's XX
4♦333 also passes and bids 2♣ over partner's XX
4♣333 redoubles and passes partner's 2♣ (or redoubles if it is doubled)

With a 4441 hand you either choose your 2 best suits or choose the 2 most economical suits to show and take out into the third if you get doubled. So
1♠444 passes and bids 2♣ over partner's redouble. If partner now corrects to diamonds you pass and can still run to hearts if doubled.
1♥444 bids 2♣. If that gets doubled you can run to diamonds.
1♦444 bids 2♣. If that gets doubled you can run to hearts.
1♣444 bids 2♦. If that gets doubled you can run to hearts.

I find it interesting that Mike recommends a similar defence based around the heart suit. It makes much more sense to me to get spades into the auction quickly which can often act as something of a mini-preempt.

[aguahombre]

A very good thread for weak notrumpers. I hope it stays that way, even though weak wasn't stipulated in the OP.

I can learn about the opponents' possible styles even though wk NT is not in our bag.

[MrAce]

I like

xx = 1 suiter 5+
2x = x suit and higher
Pass = sitting on it.

Pass sitting on it is the one that i find the most useful, having started playing bridge with weak NT and years of experience has taught me that usually the best place to run when our 1NT is doubled is to stay in 1NT. It is the most difficult contract to defend. With 4432 hands if the suits are majors or sometimes when one of them is major, u may try to run in the hope of landing in 2M, because people fear doubling 2M more than doubling 1NT or 2m and even if they do DBL they drop a trick or 2 to make sure they defeat it.

[nigel_k]

I'm sure I have posted this at least twice before, but:

XX Spades and another
Bid Natural to play
Pass Forces XX. Non-spade two suiter or strong

When you have two suits, you nearly always end up in the best fit, which doesn't happen quite often with just a general scramble. When you have a spade fit, you get to 2♠ quickly and make it harder for them. Likewise a five card or longer suit is bid immediately so that they don't get extra turns to call and opener can raise it sometimes. The downside is that a weak 4333 has to be described as something else.

I also agree that it's good to be able to play 1NT doubled at matchpoints, and I'm not sure you give up too much if you have a method that allows that. But I prefer the above at IMPs and don't want to play two different methods.

[mr1303]

Whatever you play, you really need to have pass meaning that you're going to put down the dummy. You have a flat 5 or 6 count fairly large proportion of the time, where 1NT might make, might go 1 off, but you don't really want to be forced into sending it back, or playing a silly 4-3 fit at the 2 level just because you can't play in 1NT.

[awm]

A sort of creative thought, based on the fact that many play a forcing pass after their side has doubled 1nt, at least if we run to 2m:

Pass = to play
XX = clubs and another
2c = clubs or (diamonds and a major)
2d = diamonds or majors
2M = natural

Sure you could play 2m on a non-fit... but most oops wont let you! And if they do let you (undoubled of course) it might even be good.

[nigel_k]

If it's IMPs and 1NT will either make or go one off, I do want to send it back. No doubt there are hands where 1NT goes down but costs less than our best fit at the two level, but they just don't seem that common in my experience.

[Zelandakh]

awm, on 2012-March-21, 19:49, said:

A sort of creative thought, based on the fact that many play a forcing pass after their side has doubled 1nt, at least if we run to 2m:

You could get even more creative along these lines using a popular Wriggle trick:-

Pass = to play
XX = forces 2♣, minor 1-suiter or spades and a red suit
2♣ = clubs and a higher suit
2♦ = diamonds and hearts
2M = natural

With the diamond 1-suiter you would redouble after 2♣ gets doubled. You could also include one-suited major hands too by redoubling after 2♦ gets doubled. The problem with all of these schemes where pass is to play is the inability to get to 1NTXX. Given the shrott that many club players choose to double a weak NT on this can be highly lucrative.

[straube]

We play a strong (14-16) NT.

I'd like redouble to be penalty and willing to double 2 or 3 strains. So it sets up a force. Subsequent doubles by opener or responder are business.

Responder's pass could be a good hand with 4333. This hand plans to play 1N doubled or later double the opponent's for penalty. Such a double shows typically 3-cds in their suit and lets opener decide what to do.

Responder's 2L bid is to play showing a 5-cd suit. If responder has a 5/4, he simply bids his 5-cd suit.

If the bidding goes 1N dbl P P opener may bid his own 5-cd suit or redouble to suggest two places to play. With a 4333, opener would just pass and tough it out in 1N.

I think a lot of times opponents misjudge what to do after 1N dbl P. A lot of times, they let us off the hook when 1N isn't making. Even when responder passes, opener has a chance to escape.

More important to me is keeping opener informed when responder has a good hand...and knowing whether subsequent doubles are penalty or takeout. With this scheme, redouble sets up a force and describes a 2- or 3-suiter. Subsequent doubles are penalty.

With a good 1-suited hand, it might be better to use the 3-level as transfers, invitational+. Alternately, we could use 2C, 2D, 2H, and 2S as transfers...

[straube]

So here's partner's idea of a compromise. He doesn't really like using redbl as business...

P: Nothing to say
XX: Business
2C: Usually balanced, scrambling; opener's 2M usually shows 5 card suit
2X: To play

We can also assign meanings like P shows 3-4 hearts and 2C shows 3-4 spades to help opener locate the best fit...