[apjames]

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South is dealer and opens 15-17 NT. How should North proceed?

[Cyberyeti]

There are several ways to do this, if you play simple stayman and kickback, 1N-2♣-2♥-4♠-4N(0/3)-5♣(Q♥?)-6♥(yes and nothing else)-P/7♥. Basically any club holding other than xxx is OK for the grand, but it may not be good enough to really want to bid.

Or:

1N-2♣-2♥-4♦(splinter)-4♥-4♠-4N-5♣-5N(yes no other K but something else worth having)-6♣(got the Q♣?)-7♥(yes)

The difference between the two auctions is that in the second, south is much more encouraged as he has the absolute optimum diamond holding opposite partner's singleton. There are other approaches to bidding these 4M/longer m hands where you bid the long minor after stayman, if you bid 4♣ rather than 4♦ again the Q♣ is gold, so you'll have a similar auction to the second one.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

A possible start may be

1NT - 2C
2H - 2S / 3S (1)

(1) Forcing raise for hearts, if stayman promises a 4 card major,
2S, otherwise 3S.

A splinter is ok as well, but the 4D splinter is only one step
below 4H.
If you have 2S available as forcing raise, North will see the
Ace of spades below 4H, and after that nothing will stop him.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[apjames]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-March-21, 01:56, said:

There are several ways to do this, if you play simple stayman and kickback, 1N-2♣-2♥-4♠-4N(0/3)-5♣(Q♥?)-6♥(yes and nothing else)-P/7♥. Basically any club holding other than xxx is OK for the grand, but it may not be good enough to really want to bid.

Or:

1N-2♣-2♥-4♦(splinter)-4♥-4♠-4N-5♣-5N(yes no other K but something else worth having)-6♣(got the Q♣?)-7♥(yes)

The difference between the two auctions is that in the second, south is much more encouraged as he has the absolute optimum diamond holding opposite partner's singleton. There are other approaches to bidding these 4M/longer m hands where you bid the long minor after stayman, if you bid 4♣ rather than 4♦ again the Q♣ is gold, so you'll have a similar auction to the second one.

Cheers for this. I understand the first auction, but can you explain what 5♣ is in the second auction? Maybe it's obvious but I can't work it out.

[Cyberyeti]

apjames, on 2012-March-21, 04:06, said:

Cheers for this. I understand the first auction, but can you explain what 5♣ is in the second auction? Maybe it's obvious but I can't work it out.

Same as in the first.

[apjames]

Of course it is.. I have no idea what I (wasn't) thinking

[Hanoi5]

1NT-2♣
2♥-3♠ (cue-bid agreeing hearts)
3NT(I also control spades)-4NT
5♦-5♠(trump queen?)
6♥(Yes, but no kings)-P ( )

I think it's pretty hard to get to 7.

[Zelandakh]

I like Cyber's second auction although an option after 5♣ is to use 5NT as the club king and then 6m shows that queen. This would allow you to bid the grand even on the first auction. That would not work so well if 5♦ was the queen ask after a 1430 response though. You can also get to a grand quite easily by ignoring the hearts and going for the clubs:-

1NT - 3♣
3♦ - 3♥
3♠ - 4♦
5♣ (2+Q) - 5♥
6♥ (♥KQ) - 7NT for example.

Of course you will be cursing if the clubs break 4-1 here.

In my preferred 1NT structure I start with a transfer on this hand type which gets both suits in quickly.

1NT - 2♠ = range ask, often with clubs
2NT = min
... - 3♦ = 5+ clubs, 4 hearts
3♥ = 4-5 hearts
... - 3NT = serious, asks for spade control
4♣ = spade control, no club control
... - 4♦ = asks for diamond control
4NT = diamond control and 0 or 3 key cards
... - 5♣ = ♥Q ask
6♣ = ♥Q, ♣Q, no side king
... - 7♥

As an aside this thread has me thinking that we could perhaps better optimise RKCB follow-ups so that the "something extra" response was always 5X+1 (where X is the trump suit) rather than 5NT. That would leave enough space for partner to ask in which suit the feature is. So, for example, after a 5♦ queen ask with hearts as trumps:
5♥ = no ♥Q
5♠ = ♥Q and an extra, no side king
5NT = ♥Q and ♠K
6♣ = ♥Q and ♣K, no ♠K
6♦ = ♥Q and ♦K, no other side king.
6♥ = ♥Q, no side king, no extra

Does anyone already do this?

[andy_h]

This should be just a matter of setting hearts as trumps, asking for keycards, the trump queen and the 3rd round control in clubs. A typical continuation after 1NT-2C-2M would be to use: 3oM=sets M with a shortage somewhere (3oM+1 asks), 4C=sets M slam interest with no shortness ("quantitative raise") and 4D=RKC.

Using that the auction would go:

1NT-2C
2H-4D (4D=RKC)
4S-4NT (4S=0/3, 4NT=Q ask)

Thereafter just depends on your responses to Q ask. Mine would continue

5D-6C (5D=Yes, 6C=Asks for 3rd round control in clubs)
7C-7H (7C=I have the Q [as opposed to a doubleton], 7H=Due to the unknown location of the club J, opts for 7H rather than 7NT)

If opener has a doubleton they would just bid 7H instead of 7C.

It gets a bit tricky if the partnership is missing a KC and/or without the Heart Queen since then you might want to offer to play in 6C.

[ahydra]

I like 1NT-2C-2H-4D (splinter)-4S to start. Then

4NT-5C (0 or 3)
5D(ask Q)-6H (yes no kings)

ugh.

Let's suppose North plays his partner for 16 points now that he accepted the slam try. DA, HKQ, SA are known leaving 3 points somewhere. You might blast the grand anyway based on the fact that if partner has either the CQ or a doubleton club you'll be fine.

Alternatively you need to play 5NT as the positive response with no kings so that North can bid 6C (asking for ♣Q) and South can then bid 7H. Hmm, I might start playing that!

ahydra

[TWO4BRIDGE]

apjames, on 2012-March-21, 01:08, said:

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South is dealer and opens 15-17 NT. How should North proceed?

Mine is similar to Cyber's ( re: the ♥Q-ask ) but I would use modified - Baze ( as did andy_h ) where 4D! = RKCG when Stayman fids a fit :
1NT - 2C
2H - 4D!
4H ( 0/3 ) - 4S ( next step = ♥Q-ask )
??
..4NT = yes + ♠K ( 4NT shows Q and K-of-the-asking-suit )
.. 5C = yes + ♣K
.. 5D = yes + ♦K
.. 5H = no ♥Q
..5NT = yes but no outside K ( this NT shows asked-for feature only )

After:
5NT - 6C = 3rd Rnd Ctrl-ask
??
.. 6H = no ♥Q
.. 7H = x x doubleton
..6NT = ♣Q ( NT shows the asked-for feature )
.. 7C = ♣QJ

After:
6NT - 7H ( don't know if Club suit will run... If I only knew about ♣Q-3rd or not )

[Zelandakh]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-March-21, 10:37, said:

1NT - 2C
2H - 4D!
4H ( 0/3 ) - 4S ( next step = ♥Q-ask )
??
..4NT = yes + ♠K ( 4NT shows Q and K-of-the-asking-suit )
.. 5C = yes + ♣K
.. 5D = yes + ♦K
.. 5H = no ♥Q
..5NT = yes but no outside K ( this NT shows asked-for feature only )

I think either
(a) this 5NT should show the ♠Q with 6m showing the queen of that suit and denying a lower-ranked queen and 5♠ as some kind of general extras (doubleton?) call, or
(b) 5♠ shows the ♠Q, 6m shows the queen of that suit and 5NT as general extras, or
© 5♠ shows the ♠Q, 5NT shows the ♦Q and no ♠Q, 6♣ shows the ♣Q only and 6♦ shows something like a 5th trump, or
(d) 5♠ shows one or more (unspecified) side queens, 5NT shows a doubleton spade and 6m shows a doubleton in that suit.

Using 5NT as ♥Q and no side king when 5♠ is available seems crazy to me. Also notice that in © you could change "queen" to "3rd round control" if desired and then use 6♦ as an asking bid to sort out if it were the queen or not. I am not sure this is a good idea though.

Also, using 5NT as stated, the responses to a 6♣ SSA should probably be 6♦ = ♣xx; 6♥ = ♣Jxx or worse; 6♠ = ♣Q; 6NT = ♣QJ. This allows you to search for the ♣Q to get to 6NT instead of 6♥, useful when playing MPs. However, it is not absolutely clear that using this as a SSA is best here. Also possible (over 6♣) would be 6♦ = ♦Q, no ♣Q; 6♥ = ♠Q, no ♣Q; 6♠ = ♣Q; 6NT = ♣Q and ♠Q. I still think showing the queens directly over 4♠ is better though, or at the very least using 5♠ for this purpose rather than 5NT! Making the rule that bidding the Kickback suit rather than NT shows the trump queen without a side king solves things nicely; or just assign the lowest unused bid to this. There are really an incredible array of possibilities here so it is important to know for sure that partner will understand before you embark on these paths.

[Phil]

Its a fundamental error for the North hand to splinter (or show an unbalanced raise) after 1N - 2♣ - 2♥. How can South possibly be able to count enough tricks without knowing about this great trick source? More importantly, why would we call attention to a spade lead?

I would launch RKC (either 4♣ or 4♦ depending on which variety of Baze I am using).