Help
MP in a BBO indy. 15-17 NT openers. UR bid.
Page 1 of 1
Competitive bidding after a 1 NT open You are in the pass out seat
#1
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,427
- Joined: 2005-August-12
- Gender:Male
-
Interests:Economics
Finance
Bridge bidding theory
Cooking
Downhill skiing
Posted 2007-May-24, 23:45
MP in a BBO indy. 15-17 NT openers. UR bid.
#2
- Under bidder
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,797
- Joined: 2004-July-25
- Gender:Male
- Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Posted 2007-May-25, 00:38
I would have superaccepted. Now I still bid 3H.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#3
- World International Master without a clue
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 17,404
- Joined: 2003-November-13
- Gender:Male
- Location:madrid
Posted 2007-May-25, 01:08
When the problem has no problem we create another hehe.
I wouldn't had supperaccepted, I still count my HCP on balanced hands
I wouldn't had supperaccepted, I still count my HCP on balanced hands
#4
- mmm Duvel
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 10,728
- Joined: 2003-July-30
- Gender:Male
- Location:Belgium
- Interests:Duvel, Whisky
Posted 2007-May-25, 01:23
I also would not superaccept. Since this is an indy, I wouldn't bid 3♣ now either! Keep it simple: 3♥...
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
#5
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 14,900
- Joined: 2004-May-11
- Gender:Male
- Location:Portugal
- Interests:Everything!
Posted 2007-May-25, 08:00
3♥ wtp
#6
- Csaba the Hutt
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 13,027
- Joined: 2006-June-16
- Gender:Male
- Interests:bye
Posted 2007-May-25, 08:45
3♥ natural
Once every 10 hands, you'll make 4♥ after this auction. The look at opps' face when u make 4♥ will be quite pleasant.
btw 3♣ has a strange appeal (unless you open 1NT on 2425 hands).
Once every 10 hands, you'll make 4♥ after this auction. The look at opps' face when u make 4♥ will be quite pleasant.
btw 3♣ has a strange appeal (unless you open 1NT on 2425 hands).
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
#7
- Group: Admin
- Posts: 14,566
- Joined: 2003-February-13
- Gender:Male
- Location:Amelia Island, FL
- Interests:Bridge, what else?
Posted 2007-May-25, 09:08
Given the vulnerabilty and that west choose to bid spades after partner has shown his suit and is still relatively unlimited (well he is a passed hand), I think West has solid spades and hoped to run six of them or seven of them against 1NT should partner have passed.
I will be a sheep and follow the crowd with a 3♥ bid here. At the very least, I should have LOTT protection, we have at least a nine card heart fit, and I think WEST has six-seven spades all by himself. Funny how LOTT proection is often no protection at all, however. I hope it doesn't go 3♥X all pass.... but it only matchpoints afterall, the worse I can do is get a zero.
I will be a sheep and follow the crowd with a 3♥ bid here. At the very least, I should have LOTT protection, we have at least a nine card heart fit, and I think WEST has six-seven spades all by himself. Funny how LOTT proection is often no protection at all, however. I hope it doesn't go 3♥X all pass.... but it only matchpoints afterall, the worse I can do is get a zero.
--Ben--
#8
- Under bidder
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,797
- Joined: 2004-July-25
- Gender:Male
- Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Posted 2007-May-25, 11:54
BY the way, I feel much less comfortable about bidding 3H now. LHO has shown some values so it might be possible for RHO to double us, while this would have been much harder to do over a direct 3H.
I don't really understand bidding only 2H. We have great trumps, two outside aces and potential ruffing value. This looks like a good hand to me. Just counting HCP seems wrong.
I don't really understand bidding only 2H. We have great trumps, two outside aces and potential ruffing value. This looks like a good hand to me. Just counting HCP seems wrong.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#9
- - - T98765432 AQT8
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 15,085
- Joined: 2005-June-23
- Gender:Male
- Location:Las Vegas, NV
Posted 2007-May-25, 12:04
Hannie, on May 25 2007, 12:54 PM, said:
BY the way, I feel much less comfortable about bidding 3H now. LHO has shown some values so it might be possible for RHO to double us, while this would have been much harder to do over a direct 3H.
I don't really understand bidding only 2H. We have great trumps, two outside aces and potential ruffing value. This looks like a good hand to me. Just counting HCP seems wrong.
I don't really understand bidding only 2H. We have great trumps, two outside aces and potential ruffing value. This looks like a good hand to me. Just counting HCP seems wrong.
I like bidding 3♥ the first time on the understanding it doesn't promise a max, just a good looking minimum, and using all the other inbetween bids for real super accepts.
I understand your desire to have bid 3♥ before, but I don't think it's even an option without a special agreement. Partner will bid game over that on some relatively weak hands, expecting you to truly have a max.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
#10
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 875
- Joined: 2006-June-08
Posted 2007-May-25, 14:47
I chose double (alone! so far).
Obviously wrong, but why can't I suggest +200 at MP?
Intelligent partner is still there.
Obviously wrong, but why can't I suggest +200 at MP?
Intelligent partner is still there.
#11
- Under bidder
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,797
- Joined: 2004-July-25
- Gender:Male
- Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Posted 2007-May-25, 14:53
Halo, on May 25 2007, 03:47 PM, said:
Intelligent partner is still there.
I doubt it, this is an individual. Besides, how is partner supposed to know that you have such a great hand for hearts and a rather poor hand for defending 2S?
Josh, I agree that in a pick-up partnership it may be wrong to bid 3H, but I would do it if I were playing with a partner I respect, or even with you
. So let me rephrase: I don't understand why someone would agree that it is not permitted to superaccept with a hand as good as this one.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#12 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2007-May-25, 20:10
Sorry but I gotta say...this hand is terrible. If you super accept with this hand I will assume you super accept at least 90 % of the time because to me this is a bottom 10th percentile hand of hands that have 15-17 balanced with 4 trumps. Even if I had the agreement to super accept with this hand I would not. Did jacks become good all of the suden? And the heart queen will often be wasted and is not a great card. The only thing good about this hand is that it is not 4333. In fact having bid 2H if partner made an invite I would not bid game with this.
3H now is routine. I do believe that by super accepting we will lose far more by getting to terrible 3 and 4H contracts when we could have bought it for lower than we will gain by getting to good games that would be missed or preempting the opponents.
3H now is routine. I do believe that by super accepting we will lose far more by getting to terrible 3 and 4H contracts when we could have bought it for lower than we will gain by getting to good games that would be missed or preempting the opponents.
#13
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 16,825
- Joined: 2003-October-07
- Gender:Male
Posted 2007-May-25, 21:29
If I can show a superaccept with 4hearts and a minimum hand over 2D I use it.
Of course I play 123 stop also, so...
Of course I play 123 stop also, so...
#14
- Under bidder
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,797
- Joined: 2004-July-25
- Gender:Male
- Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Posted 2007-May-25, 22:10
The queen will only be wasted if partner has the ace, and even then it is of value. I'm surprised to read you write that a hand with 4-card support, 3 keycards, the trump queen and a doubleton is one of the worst 15-17 hands you can have.
Give partner x J10xxxx xxx Q10x and game is basically on a hook, but I doubt partner will bid it over a minimum superaccept. Moreover, the opponents likely make 4S if partner has that hand. I admit that this is a perfect fit, and that all of our cards except the spade jack are working. I do think that the spade jack is the only really bad point in our hand.
I appreciate your comment as always but I have to think some more about this one before I accept it as wisdom.
Give partner x J10xxxx xxx Q10x and game is basically on a hook, but I doubt partner will bid it over a minimum superaccept. Moreover, the opponents likely make 4S if partner has that hand. I admit that this is a perfect fit, and that all of our cards except the spade jack are working. I do think that the spade jack is the only really bad point in our hand.
I appreciate your comment as always but I have to think some more about this one before I accept it as wisdom.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#15 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2007-May-25, 22:56
Hannie, on May 25 2007, 11:10 PM, said:
The queen will only be wasted if partner has the ace, and even then it is of value.
If partner has 6 hearts I would also rather have the HQ somewhere else that is useful than in hearts. I don't think it is always wasted I just don't see it as a great card. It is pretty average.
Quote
I'm surprised to read you write that a hand with 4-card support, 3 keycards, the trump queen and a doubleton is one of the worst 15-17 hands you can have.
That is not what I said.
jlall said:
If you super accept with this hand I will assume you super accept at least 90 % of the time because to me this is a bottom 10th percentile hand of hands that have 15-17 balanced with 4 trumps.
Super accepting already shows 4+ trumps. You cannot upgrade a hand to a super accept because it has 4 trumps. My point is simply that of hands that you are super accepting with you are accepting one near the bottom of the range. This would imply you almost always super accept with 4 trumps.
Quote
Give partner x J10xxxx xxx Q10x and game is basically on a hook
Ty. This is not the only hand he can have. To evaluate properly you will need to look at more than random perfect fitting hands.
Quote
I do think that the spade jack is the only really bad point in our hand.
1) we have no spot cards
2) the club jack is not a great card
3) you're right, stray jacks are terrible
4) our honors don't work well together except for our hearts which is negated by the fact that sometimes that is wasted.
My points are maybe better illustrated by giving a hand of my own
Imagine you had AKxx Qxxx AQx xx. This hand is very good because the honors work well together, xx and AKxx are much better than Ax and Kxxx. Ax is really not a great holding. There are no jacks so if partner is going to bid a slim game that will be helpful. The heart queen alone is a pretty good holding, this is a better hand than say Axxx KQxx AQx xx because their is less chance of wasted values.
#16
- Under bidder
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,797
- Joined: 2004-July-25
- Gender:Male
- Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Posted 2007-May-25, 23:01
Sorry for misquoting, that was not intentional.
I certainly agree that the hand you gave is a better hand. I also agree that I superaccept with most hands containing 4-card support. :-)
I certainly agree that the hand you gave is a better hand. I also agree that I superaccept with most hands containing 4-card support. :-)
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#17
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,211
- Joined: 2006-April-22
Posted 2007-May-26, 09:54
Partner had a chance to voice an opinion that this hand is ours because 7+hcp added to 15; because H very long; because 2nd suit.
Expect a rag escape over there and fear they make 4S.
Expect a rag escape over there and fear they make 4S.
Page 1 of 1
P-P-1NT-P
2♦-P-2♥-2♠
P-P-???