[jillybean]

 thepossum, on 2022-November-02, 19:06, said:

You will probably get a pass with a Quant - depending on your partner and how they value their hand of course They may head to a slam but who knows

Am I the only one confused here? Shouldn't we be expecting partner to bid expert std or are you asking us to create auctions to cater for an incompetent partner?

[thepossum]

 jillybean, on 2022-November-02, 22:25, said:

Am I the only one confused here? Shouldn't we be expecting partner to bid expert std or are you asking us to create auctions to cater for an incompetent partner?

I don't understand your problem

I put up a hand that fails to reach slam as a quant

That is the subject of the thread

[thepossum]

 jillybean, on 2022-November-02, 22:25, said:

Am I the only one confused here? Shouldn't we be expecting partner to bid expert std or are you asking us to create auctions to cater for an incompetent partner?

I don't understand your problem

I put up a hand that fails to reach slam as a quant

That is the subject of the thread

I'm sick of people picking fights on this site

Occasionally let's have some fun and be nice

Life is full of irritations and stress. Relax please

I will spoil the game and say you needed to bid 6nt with only 30 points

Sadly many of us bid 4

If you are lucky you may make an overtrick

You could also bid 6spades.

[thepossum]

Here is the traveller for the hand

The traveller

The top/most common/I assume expert?? level contract was 6S but you had to bid it. Some went for 6NT

[nullve]

I suggested using 4N as "Non-forcing RKC" over

2N-3♥; 3♠

in this thread.

Could do the same over

1N-2♥; 2♠,

with responses something like

P = MIN and no fit
5♣,...,5♠ = RKC responses with a fit (but 5♠ should also be NF)
6N = MAX, to play

.

This is my post number 2000, btw.

[jillybean]

 thepossum, on 2022-November-02, 23:06, said:

I don't understand your problem

I put up a hand that fails to reach slam as a quant

That is the subject of the thread

I'm sick of people picking fights on this site

Occasionally let's have some fun and be nice

Life is full of irritations and stress. Relax please

I will spoil the game and say you needed to bid 6nt with only 30 points

Sadly many of us bid 4

If you are lucky you may make an overtrick

You could also bid 6spades.

The subject of the thread is "Why 33 HCP for 6NT"
My apologies if you think I am picking a fight. I was confused with the responses from your partner but now that I see it was an "ACOL Individual Day Long" with BOTS, I understand why. I have no idea how to bid it with an ACOL bot.

In an american system it would start 1♦:1♠ 2♠ and with 18hcp and a 9 card fit South will explore for slam.

[helene_t]

 bluenikki, on 2022-October-27, 05:00, said:

It's really 34.

When the 33 is missing the AK of the same suit, you will always be down when both are with the opening leader. You will be down at least 25% of the time when both are with the non-leader. You will sometimes be down when the ace is with the opening leader.

Of 35, in case AQ is over dummy's king.

But really, it's a statistical problem. DD it's about 31, but single dummy some 32 or 33.

[mikestar13]

 hrothgar, on 2022-October-28, 10:31, said:

I suspect that these guidelines significantly pre-date the use of computers to model the trick taking ability of various bridge hands.

If I had to guess, 7 HCPs means that you can't be off two aces...

Absolutely I remember my ancient copy of Goren said precisely this.

[thepossum]

Almost made a 31 point 6NT 100% yesterday (correction 98.7%). Sadly blundered on the third last trick
Fortnuately I knew we had 3 Aces and a King when I made the call - along with about 15 others, 4 of whom made the contract

[AL78]

Why 33 HCP for 6NT? That is taught as an initial guidance for beginners and can be (over)simply justified to them by pointing out it is impossible to be down off two aces (although you can be down off AK in a suit holding 33 HCP). At some point they should be taught about trick taking potential alongside not having two losers off the top.

Beginners are also taught you need 37HCP for 7NT on the same basis, you cannot be off on a cashing ace, and if you have 37HCP between the hands, the grand is very likely to be on a finesse at the worst. Again the reality comes down to trick taking potential as well as controls, and methods to judge trick taking potential as the auction progresses.

Partner and I bid and made 7NT on these cards recently:

---

Only 30 combined HCP but all those small red cards are each worth a trick.

[pescetom]

 AL78, on 2022-December-18, 04:28, said:

Partner and I bid and made 7NT

Didn't partner have a better way to bid that hand in your system? Looks to me like she could easily have missed a game.

[AL78]

 pescetom, on 2022-December-18, 04:59, said:

Didn't partner have a better way to bid that hand in your system? Looks to me like she could easily have missed a game.

I held the North hand. We play Acol three weak twos and I judged the hand not enough to open 2♣. Opening 1-suit followed by 1-another suit could still be strong, up to just below a jump shift so partner is very unlikely to pass my second bid.

[pescetom]

 AL78, on 2022-December-18, 07:11, said:

I held the North hand. We play Acol three weak twos and I judged the hand not enough to open 2♣. Opening 1-suit followed by 1-another suit could still be strong, up to just below a jump shift so partner is very unlikely to pass my second bid.

I wasn't worried about North's rebid but about South's, which is merely invitational according to the description. Not hard to imagine a North hand that would pass and miss game.