[AL78]

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MPs, 5CM, strong NT, 1♦ is a real suit, double is standard Sputnik. Your call?

[eagles123]

Pass. yes we have the spades stopped which is nice but we have a minimum hand and no reason to bid on. If we have 3n on say then partner will take another action.

[LBengtsson]

Nothing difficult imo: Pass. Minimum hand. The opps. are bidding at adverse vulnerability. At MPs if could X and get a +200 that will probably be a top. But you are balanced, minimum, with no fit for partner. I guess partner has a ♣ honor and that you can collect 5 tricks by leading a ♣, and a trick in all four suits and a ♣ ruff but I am guessing.

[michel444]

my first reaction is i am going to sleep PASS minimum opening
as far as i remember Spounic is a negative double showing exatly 4 cards ♥ with 7-11 HCP
the long spade sit after me
overcall is normaly a 5+ card suit with 1+ top honor and maybe some other honor
the ( preemtive / inviting) raise is with 4 +♠ so partner is likly to be 1=4=4=4 or 0=4=4=5
i inssit on 4 cards ♦ cause with 5 he should support

so a reasonabel contract in ♦ but to lazy to imagine a hand that make 9 trick in a ♦ contract

[michel444]

LBengtsson, on 2022-September-25, 13:27, said:

Nothing difficult imo: Pass. Minimum hand. The opps. are bidding at adverse vulnerability. At MPs if could X and get a +200 that will probably be a top. But you are balanced, minimum, with no fit for partner. I guess partner has a ♣ honor and that you can collect 5 tricks by leading a ♣, and a trick in all four suits and a ♣ ruff but I am guessing.

if they play Spade South is leading !!!!

[AL78]

I decided to pass and this is what happened:

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4♦ was invitational to five but I felt I had a dirt minimum so passed. East led their ace then switched to a spade and once I had ruffed my way to dummy and drawn trumps, four rounds of clubs allowed me to dispose of both my heart losers. Making +2 for 7/16 MPs, which given we missed the optimal 3NT contract which I would normally expect most of a field of weak NT players would reach, was generous. In an ideal world we would have defended 3♠X and got 800 out of them.

I'm surprised only two pairs found 3NT (and I'm surprised one East was allowed to play in 2♠ drifting one off for a top). There were four others in a diamond partscore like us, and three of them clearly didn't get barraged given they played in 2♦ and 3♦.

[sfi]

Ignoring the merits of South's second action, North does have some reasons to at least consider raising 4D to 5. These include:

• a fifth trump, which will be another trick most of the time
  
• three spades, which means partner is likely to only have one
  
• on the auction, there's a fair chance the club queen is going to be valuable

On the downside, you have a flat minimum hand with significant wasted values in spades. You're probably right to pass, but I just wanted to point out it's not completely hopeless. On the actual hand, 5D is a very poor spot and you were lucky to make - you don't particularly want to be there. It's also worth pointing out that 3NT makes 10 tricks on the hand, so no matter what you do, you were going to lose matchpoints to any pair in that contract - you're only competing with the people in a partscore and in 5D. What this means is much of the time they don't need to factor in your decision whether or not to bid game.

Of course, this line of analysis requires that partner has the hand they are showing. Here they don't, so the results on this hand can't really be used as evidence about whether your pass was "right" or not.

[DavidKok]

South should double 3♠ instead of bidding 4♦.

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2022-September-26, 06:34, said:

South should double 3♠ instead of bidding 4♦.

Echo the sentiments about double. Also you should raise to 5, any heart honours partner has are likey to be working, you may depend on a 2-2 diamond break.

5♦ is a poor contract, BUT if the K♦ is right, then so are the ♥AK given the relative point counts between the the opps.

[AL78]

Cyberyeti, on 2022-September-26, 07:20, said:

Echo the sentiments about double. Also you should raise to 5, any heart honours partner has are likey to be working, you may depend on a 2-2 diamond break.

5♦ is a poor contract, BUT if the K♦ is right, then so are the ♥AK given the relative point counts between the the opps.

If the ♥AK are under partner, I also need West to have at least three so East cannot cash them both and give West a ruff, which is what I thought was about to happen when dummy came down.

[Cyberyeti]

AL78, on 2022-September-26, 07:52, said:

If the ♥AK are under partner, I also need West to have at least three so East cannot cash them both and give West a ruff, which is what I thought was about to happen when dummy came down.

If he's 5413 depending on the opp with his approximate count and good hearts compared to his spades he might have doubled rather than overcalling.

[sfi]

Cyberyeti, on 2022-September-26, 07:55, said:

If he's 5413 depending on the opp with his approximate count and good hearts compared to his spades he might have doubled rather than overcalling.

Evidence is not strong that players use enough doubles in competitive situations at AL78's club.

[Cyberyeti]

sfi, on 2022-September-26, 09:23, said:

Evidence is not strong that players use enough doubles in competitive situations at AL78's club.

I meant 1♦-X rather than 1♦-1♠, I suspect many would double with Kxxxx, AK10x, x, Jxx

[AL78]

Cyberyeti, on 2022-September-26, 09:36, said:

I meant 1♦-X rather than 1♦-1♠, I suspect many would double with Kxxxx, AK10x, x, Jxx

With KJxxx, AKTx, xx, Jx it is less clear whether someone will double. Sod's law says a double will have you playing in a 5-2 or 4-2 club fit with a 5-3 spade fit on the side. Sod's law also says if you overcall 1♠, you'll play in a 5-2 spade fit with a 4-4 heart fit on the side.

[Cyberyeti]

AL78, on 2022-September-26, 09:51, said:

With KJxxx, AKTx, xx, Jx it is less clear whether someone will double. Sod's law says a double will have you playing in a 5-2 or 4-2 club fit with a 5-3 spade fit on the side. Sod's law also says if you overcall 1♠, you'll play in a 5-2 spade fit with a 4-4 heart fit on the side.

Yes it is, but what I was suggesting was that some of the 54s might double, thus reducing the chances, and there's no need for partner to have as many as 2 spades, just not enough to bid and 1 or 0.

[mikeh]

DavidKok, on 2022-September-26, 06:34, said:

South should double 3♠ instead of bidding 4♦.

While I agree with double, that’s nowhere nearly enough a condemnation of 4D.

Even opposite a minimum, south is far closer to a slam try than to an invitation to game.

‘Inviting’ with a full opening bid and a stiff spade is incredibly timid or, likely more @ccurately, reflective of an inability to properly value a hand or draw inferences from the bidding.

Double is clear, imo, but if one refuses to double it should be because one is driving to game. Aiming for +130 is silly


Plus 4D should never be an ‘invitation’ to game. What if one has, say, x Axxx Jxxxx Kxx. Am I really supposed to pass 3S out of fear that partner thinks I have a better hand and may turn 130 into -50?

[AL78]

mikeh, on 2022-September-26, 10:10, said:

Plus 4D should never be an ‘invitation’ to game. What if one has, say, x Axxx Jxxxx Kxx. Am I really supposed to pass 3S out of fear that partner thinks I have a better hand and may turn 130 into -50?

I agree. I don't like it but I have been having some success discussing certain sequences with partner, like 1♦ - 4♦ has now been agreed as not invitational to game but a slam try. I have had this problem in a previous competitive auction when we had the hearts, opponents had the spades, they bid 2♠ over our 2♥, I had enough to compete to 3♥ but not enough to invite game so I bid 3♥. Partner took it as invitational, raised to 4♥, one down (or was it two down, I can't remember, it wasn't good whatever it was). I failed to convince partner that in this situation, double can be used to show an invitational hand leaving 3♥ as purely competitive.

[eagles123]

DavidKok, on 2022-September-26, 06:34, said:

South should double 3♠ instead of bidding 4♦.

AL78's partner in clueless bid shocker!