[AL78]

♠AQ9
♥AQJ
♦A986
♣AK2

After two passes RHO opens 3♠. Your call?

[smerriman]

I need a lot of help from partner to make 3NT. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm just going to pass and take them down.

[johnu]

I don't need a lot of help from partner to make 3NT. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm just going to risk 3NT and hope to make.

[Cyberyeti]

 smerriman, on 2022-September-23, 14:25, said:

I need a lot of help from partner to make 3NT. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm just going to pass and take them down.

5 clubs to the Q10 or any 5 diamonds doesn't feel like an awful lot, 3N for me, if we make 6 that's unfortunate but in no way impossible, only requires xx K10xx, xx, Q10xxx.

[michel444]

 AL78, on 2022-September-23, 14:09, said:

♠AQ9
♥AQJ
♦A986
♣AK2

After two passes RHO opens 3♠. Your call?

i will be picky the 3 ♠ steal from you your "natural" strong opening
structure over 3M
double off shape 2+ ♠ 14+ HCP
3NT a transfer to 4 ♣ can be any single suit minor may be ligh but major are strong
4m 4+♥ and 5+m
4 heart 6+ heart
4N minors
this is from the book terorist moMscito writen by Bo yin Yang

more to add.

[mikeh]

I’m happy that partner is a passed hand, since slam is now unlikely (and possibly difficult to find anyway)

Passing is imo silly. It’s the type of action one has to talk oneself into by imagining how bad partner’s hand might be….but almost always isn’t.

The choices are double then 4N (which is NOT keycard no matter what partner bids) or a very overweight 3N

My sterile shape and partner’s passed hand status persuades me to the underbid of 3N.

Anybody too afraid to bid here should probably never cross the road, never take any trip by air or boa, and might well consider never getting out of bed.

[michel444]

 michel444, on 2022-September-23, 14:57, said:

i will be picky the 3 ♠ steal from you your "natural" strong opening
structure over 3M
double off shape 2+ ♠ 14+ HCP
3NT a transfer to 4 ♣ can be any single suit minor may be ligh but major are strong
4m 4+♥ and 5+m
4 heart 6+ heart
4N minors
this is from the book terorist moMscito writen by Bo yin Yang

more to add.

so the only option left is a double

advancer have to bid ...

as much as I can unerstand
4♣ is a transfer to ♦
4♦ transfer to Heart
4 ♥ ??
4♠ transfer to club
will add a copy of his answer

[michel444]

Advencer response to t/o double over 3M

• Over 3 M , the scheme looks more familiar but still some-
what unusual as a two-way bid is involved.
3♠ If available, nat (but may be short), nf.
4♣ This usually shows ♦, but when rebidding 4 oM , that
message is cancelled and instead shows an indepen-
dently playable suit if oM is unbid (as in [1♣(3♠)4♣;
4♦-4♥], else CoG with minimal supp for partner’s
suit (as in [1♠(3♥)4♣; 4♦-4♠]).
4♦ trf → oM , with strength and sets up all forcing passes
even if just supporting partner.
4 M trf → ♣.
4 oM nat, nf. CoG if an unbid suit.

was copy past as is ....

[michel444]

 mikeh, on 2022-September-23, 15:11, said:

I’m happy that partner is a passed hand, since slam is now unlikely (and possibly difficult to find anyway)

Passing is imo silly. It’s the type of action one has to talk oneself into by imagining how bad partner’s hand might be….but almost always isn’t.

The choices are double then 4N (which is NOT keycard no matter what partner bids) or a very overweight 3N

My sterile shape and partner’s passed hand status persuades me to the underbid of 3N.

Anybody too afraid to bid here should probably never cross the road, never take any trip by air or boa, and might well consider never getting out of bed.

you may find partner
with♠ x ♥ K xxx xxx ♦ k xx ♣ xx and slam is on in ♥

[smerriman]

I made the usual mistake of wondering why it was posted as a bidding problem. I would have bid 3NT every day of the week if actually dealt this at the table, so I really should know better than to try to overthink things when it's a forum post.

[LBengtsson]

This is the sort of hand where a super expert like Zia or Peter Fredin would work out with a regular partner that 'Pass' is the best bid as long as partner (is a super expert also) and balances with a X (with any 0-10) and then you collect a mega penalty

(The thinking behind this is partner with his 0-10 will wonder how partner cannot bid here after two passes and a pre-empt, so he must have this sort of hand. Whether there is any logic behind this I do not know as I am not a super expert, and never will be lol)

Beyond fantasy bids, I go for 3NT serious underbid (but if partner has a Yarborough even 9 tricks may be difficult, especially if a ♠ is not lead, as the breaks are not likely to be good, due to the pre-empt, and I will be playing from my hand only trying to establish tricks.

[AL78]

My partner bid 3NT and played there making +2. The full deal:

---

12 tricks are there in either red suit or NT. I wondered if anyone here would find any other bid that would get the extreme strength across. I don't think the slam is biddable by mere mortals like myself, even without the pre-empt.

[DavidKok]

Without the preempt there is room to investigate, but with it 3NT seems like the right move.

That balancing on 0-10 idea is nuts, why doesn't the partner of preempter have a lousy 11 and the preempter a maximum? You'll be handing out 530's and 730's.

[michel444]

 AL78, on 2022-September-24, 00:53, said:

My partner bid 3NT and played there making +2. The full deal:

---

12 tricks are there in either red suit or NT. I wondered if anyone here would find any other bid that would get the extreme strength across. I don't think the slam is biddable by mere mortals like myself, even without the pre-empt.

as I write before the best bid i can make is Double partner must decide
1 to show his "exelent" 4 cards ♥ by biding 4 ♦ or his
2 "poor" 5 cards ♦ by biding 4♣
whatever he choose 4 NT as RKCB 1430 to his suit (not sure about this)
1 he answer 0-3 5♦
2 he answer 5♣ 1-4
on second option i may try 6♦
on the first IDK

[Cyberyeti]

 DavidKok, on 2022-September-24, 01:48, said:

Without the preempt there is room to investigate, but with it 3NT seems like the right move.

That balancing on 0-10 idea is nuts, why doesn't the partner of preempter have a lousy 11 and the preempter a maximum? You'll be handing out 530's and 730's.

Since we start with a weak 2♦ in front of the preempt, bidding the slam is trivial, this is not the best hand we've seen oposite one of our weak 2s by a long way.

[michel444]

 AL78, on 2022-September-24, 00:53, said:

My partner bid 3NT and played there making +2. The full deal:

---

12 tricks are there in either red suit or NT. I wondered if anyone here would find any other bid that would get the extreme strength across. I don't think the slam is biddable by mere mortals like myself, even without the pre-empt.

for biding w/o the pre it is quiet simple

---

now south have to ask why his partner bid 4♦ why he didn't pass 3NT
3 club is baron 3D is 4 cards diamond
3 Hearts is 4 cards heart 3nt deny 4 card major

and 4 diamond is a slam invitation in Diamond !

[Douglas43]

 Cyberyeti, on 2022-September-24, 02:32, said:

Since we start with a weak 2♦ in front of the preempt, bidding the slam is trivial, this is not the best hand we've seen oposite one of our weak 2s by a long way.

Hi Cyberyeti, it's a bit unorthodox to have a four card major on the side when opening a weak 2♦, particularly first or second in hand. What has your experience been with that please? Do you have some sort of checkback in place?

[DavidKok]

 Cyberyeti, on 2022-September-24, 02:32, said:

Since we start with a weak 2♦ in front of the preempt, bidding the slam is trivial, this is not the best hand we've seen oposite one of our weak 2s by a long way.

I wouldn't open this 2♦ with three flaws - second seat, four card hearts side suit and no intermediates. I think this is resulting.

[Cyberyeti]

 Douglas43, on 2022-September-24, 03:07, said:

Hi Cyberyeti, it's a bit unorthodox to have a four card major on the side when opening a weak 2♦, particularly first or second in hand. What has your experience been with that please? Do you have some sort of checkback in place?

We can open it 4-4 with a zero count so our weak 2s are VERY non standard. They're fun and even good players can struggle with them particularly when unprepared. We've had more 4 figure scores in the + column than the -, the two funniest I've had were the first one we opened after changing to this style where I had a 4324 with 2 jacks, opened 2♠, next hand overcalls 3♦ and partner doubled with 4 trump tricks in a 2N opener. The other caught partner with a 27 count with AKQJxx of my suit, we were able to precisely bid a slam which we knew was 50% but state of the match said bid it as we were sure it wouldn't be bid at the other table.

We use NF but highly encouraging change of suit responses so 2N is really big with responses above the suit opened showing upper end, below showing minimum, which means which suit you open with 4-4 if one of them isn't clubs varies with range in first seat.

We play these 1st and 3rd, our second seat weak 2s show 6, I missed the first pass, and we wouldn't in fact open this one, but would in 1st.

[AL78]

 Cyberyeti, on 2022-September-24, 02:32, said:

Since we start with a weak 2♦ in front of the preempt, bidding the slam is trivial, this is not the best hand we've seen oposite one of our weak 2s by a long way.

We weren't playing weak 2♦ but if we were I wouldn't open 2♦ with only five and a four card major. I play weak twos in second seat as sound.