[Cyberyeti]

Bid these, we were playing our local green point swiss teams, this was a key hand involved in winning it, how do you guys bid this one.

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Our 2N range is good 19-21 and we bid 4♠(kickback)-4N(0/3)-5N(no K, all the keycards, interested in grand) and partner decided he couldn't be any better and just blasted 7♥, clubs don't split but the stiff J meant 7N was on, 7♥ didn't need that with hearts 3-1, in 6 at the other table.

[pescetom]

Cyberyeti, on 2021-May-23, 11:49, said:

Bid these, we were playing our local green point swiss teams, this was a key hand involved in winning it, how do you guys bid this one.

---

Our 2N range is good 19-21 and we bid 4♠(kickback)-4N(0/3)-5N(no K, all the keycards, interested in grand) and partner decided he couldn't be any better and just blasted 7♥, clubs don't split but the stiff J meant 7N was on, 7♥ didn't need that with hearts 3-1, in 6 at the other table.

Our auction would be identical to 3♥ but we don't kickback in majors so RKCB would be 4NT which as it happens would work just as well here.
More our style to control-bid however, so it would probably go:
2NT 3♣
3♥ 3♠
3NT 4♣
4♦ 4NT
5♣ 5♥
5♠ 6♣
7♥ p

[mikeh]

I think, with respect, that reaching 7H ought to be pretty easy. South keycards, by whatever method he has available, and asks for kings. Playing specific kings, as I think most good players do, identifies the club king and it’s trivial to bid 7H, since it’s difficult to construct a hand on which it’s not somewhere between cold and on a finesse. While one should not, unless desperate, bid a grand on a hook, when it is at worst on a hook and may be cold, one has to bid it.

[Cyberyeti]

mikeh, on 2021-May-23, 13:32, said:

I think, with respect, that reaching 7H ought to be pretty easy. South keycards, by whatever method he has available, and asks for kings. Playing specific kings, as I think most good players do, identifies the club king and it’s trivial to bid 7H, since it’s difficult to construct a hand on which it’s not somewhere between cold and on a finesse. While one should not, unless desperate, bid a grand on a hook, when it is at worst on a hook and may be cold, one has to bid it.

This was the issue with our auction, I could have had ♦QJ10xx rather than ♣AQxxx we should have continued in that case over 5N with 6♣-6♦(this is specifically the Q and 99% the J as well as I've already denied the K)-6♠-6N, in the actual case 6♣-7♥ is fine. TBF we were one of only 4/30 to bid the grand, unbelievably there were more in game than a grand (just).

[mikeh]

Cyberyeti, on 2021-May-23, 13:45, said:

This was the issue with our auction, I could have had ♦QJ10xx rather than ♣AQxxx we should have continued in that case over 5N with 6♣-6♦(this is specifically the Q and 99% the J as well as I've already denied the K)-6♠-6N, in the actual case 6♣-7♥ is fine. TBF we were one of only 4/30 to bid the grand, unbelievably there were more in game than a grand (just).

I don’t understand why south would not ask for kings. Now, if not playing specific kings, I can see an issue. But otherwise, isn’t south more than mildly interested in the club holding?

[Cyberyeti]

mikeh, on 2021-May-23, 15:17, said:

I don’t understand why south would not ask for kings. Now, if not playing specific kings, I can see an issue. But otherwise, isn’t south more than mildly interested in the club holding?

5♣ would have asked for the ♥Q, 6♣ would have been what I did with AKxxx/AKJx asking for the ♣Q (not sure what 5♣ then 6♣ over 5♥ would be), 5N said "I have no K's to show but am still interested in grand" I expected N to bid 6♣ if he had the K, as it was partner just blasted 7, so it is effectively asking for specific Ks.

[mw64ahw]

Cyberyeti, on 2021-May-23, 11:49, said:

Bid these, we were playing our local green point swiss teams, this was a key hand involved in winning it, how do you guys bid this one.

---

Our 2N range is good 19-21 and we bid 4♠(kickback)-4N(0/3)-5N(no K, all the keycards, interested in grand) and partner decided he couldn't be any better and just blasted 7♥, clubs don't split but the stiff J meant 7N was on, 7♥ didn't need that with hearts 3-1, in 6 at the other table.

Showing controls & showing keycards

2NT-3♣
3♥-3♠ (♠ control)
4♣ (♣ control & 2+♥ honours)-4♥ (denies ♦ control)
4NT (3 keycards w. ♦ & ♠ controls)-6♣ (Q♥ & K♣ or Q♣ w. no Kings)
7♥ (alternatively 6♠ to show the Q and ask partner to pick the grand)

[Zelandakh]

After
2NT - 3♣
3♥ - 3♠ = agreeing ♥ with SI:-

3NT = declines slam try
4♣ = accepts slam try without a ♣ control
4♦ = accepts slam try with a ♣ control but no ♦ control
4♥ = accepts slam try with ♣+♦ control but no ♠ control
4♠ = accepts slam try, controls in all side suits and 1 or 4 key cards
4NT = accepts slam try, controls in all side suits and 0 or 3 key cards
5♣ = accepts slam try, controls in all side suits and 2 or 5 key cards without ♥Q
5♦ = accepts slam try, controls in all side suits and 2 or 5 key cards with ♥Q
--

[Cascade]

Like Zel, we need to utilise the 3NT and 4♥ bids over 3♠, which is commonly played as a slam try in hearts.

Since 2NT is already a very narrow range, I do not think that using the first step to accept or decline the slam try is the most efficient use of that bid. We use 3NT to show a spade control.

On some other auctions in order to facilitate responder being able to safely bid Blackwood we use a bid of 4♥ to show controls in all side suits. The most common auction where that agreement applies is after a transfer and a super-accept. 2NT 3♦ 4♥ is a superaccept with controls everywhere. That principle can be extended to this auction where 2NT 3♣ 3♥ 3♠ 4♥ shows controls in all side suits perhaps with a range implication, either good or poor. It is hard to imagine a poor hand with controls in all suits though. Otherwise, we use the decision to stop in 4♥ or go beyond 4♥ by either partner as the trigger to show or deny extra interest.

2NT 3♣
3♥ 3♠
4♥ ...

Responder now knows that opener has ♠K and ♣K and either ♦A or K. Blackwood should sort out the rest.

... 4♠ if playing kickback
4NT ... 0 or 3

Now if the clubs are running there are thirteen on top. And if not we have 13 with a 4-2 club break and a ruff if partner has three spades and two clubs. In addition there may well be other chances.

In practice we can't find out if partner has three clubs or ♣KJ so we are going to have to bid 7♥ rather than shoot for 7NT.