[thepossum]

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This was very costly in an MP tournamment. I considered a no trump overcall thinking maybe I had enough to risk overcalling 2S. I ruled out double because of shape. But every other table except two doubled 2S or 3S.

Can anyone explain going against the usual takeout shape here please

I often have problems bidding the system without a penalty double below game

Note. It was made more costly by my defence. Thats not why I'm posting though

[Cyberyeti]

I can live with x or 2N here, pass is dangerous although often partner will be short in spades so will reopen, you're just unlucky partner has extreme shape but no points.

Also a human N might bid, partner clearly has an opening bid, probably quite a decent one when opps bid 2♠-3♠ yet hasn't bid over 2♠, ♠xxxx is quite a likely holding so he will have a fit for one of the minors, 4432 is about the worst shape he can be and you could be making 6 even opposite that.

[thepossum]

Thx Cyberyeti. Some tables indeed found 5C+1

[Zelandakh]

Question for the crowd - if North bids 3NT over 3♠, what does that show for you?

Edit: didn't notice this was in N/B. If you can ignore that just for this question then please do.

[Cyberyeti]

Zelandakh, on 2020-August-31, 13:40, said:

Question for the crowd - if North bids 3NT over 3♠, what does that show for you?

Edit: didn't notice this was in N/B. If you can ignore that just for this question then please do.

I think by a passed hand it's a reasonable question for N/B.

[nige1]

thePossum 'This was very costly in an MP tournamment. I considered a no trump overcall thinking maybe I had enough to risk overcalling 2S. I ruled out double because of shape. But every other table except two doubled 2S or 3S.'
+++++++++++++++++++
Don't like a double by South. Since North has already passed, however, Zelandakh seems right that Gib should overcall 3NT to show a weak 2-suiter.

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[pescetom]

nige1, on 2020-August-31, 14:56, said:

Don't like a double by South. Since North has already passed, however, Zelandakh seems right that Gib should overcall 3NT to show a weak 2-suiter.

Possibly ♥+minor, or only both minors?

[Cyberyeti]

pescetom, on 2020-August-31, 15:24, said:

Possibly ♥+minor, or only both minors?

With a human, by a passed hand, surely 4m is that minor and hearts as you'd have opened the minor if you just had that suit, but not sure what GIB does.

[akwoo]

Cyberyeti, on 2020-August-31, 16:09, said:

With a human, by a passed hand, surely 4m is that minor and hearts as you'd have opened the minor if you just had that suit, but not sure what GIB does.

I wouldn't try this (or 3N for the minors) undiscussed with 95% of bridge players as partner.

Also, with at least 70% of bridge players as partner, 4m as a bad bid is more likely than 4m with the minor and hearts (and with 20% of bridge players, both this bad bid and the hearts possibility are both so unlikely that I wouldn't know which to guess).

I also wouldn't discuss this with any partner - if someone wouldn't get the logic undiscussed, they're not going to remember it 5 years from now when it comes up.

[helene_t]

I don't like double. Espcially if you don't play Lebensohl in which case you don't know if you have enough to bid over partner's response. I suppose you'd then pass 3♣ but raise 3♥, while over the more likely 3♦ response you are cooked. If you do play Lebensohl, you still don't like a bail-out in diamonds. Over 3♣ I suppose you would bid 3♠, but the decision between 3NT and 4/5♣ will never be very accurate I think.

So I'd rather bid 2NT, especially if we play stayman and transfers so that partner can't bail out in diamonds. Mostly we have stop spades somehow, at least as long as RHO doesn't have any entries, and if partner is void in spades we probably won't be playing notrumps anyway.

Pass is also reasonable. If you can pass and then double in normal tempo, partner is not under ethical pressure and can maybe cater to something like your actual holding, although he probably can't be blamed for taking your delayed double as meaning that opps must be in a 5-2 fit or so.

3NT by North is possible but I would be afraid of being left in it. 5♣ by North is another option. Or maybe 4♣, but I think that would sound too much like NLM, i.e. showing clubs and hearts. 5♣ by a passed hand must show two places to play (otherwise North would have preempted), it must be the minors (otherwise he wouldn't bypass 4♥) and he must have longer clubs (otherwise 4NT).

It's tough. If opps can be trusted, South can also bid 5♣ at his second turn, trust partner to be void in spades and probably have some club length due to the lack of preemptive opening. North could be 0562 or so but then he might correct 5♣ to 5♦. You can also try 4♠ at your second turn. Either way, there's a risk that opps are joking with a 5-2 fit, in which case your'd rather double at your second turn.

[thepossum]

Thx all for the interesting discussion. I'm relieved that my lack of confidence over my options was not misplaced. My logic was that I felt we could maybe defend the contract and I didn't want to risk any double however it was interpreted. I was also a bit nervous about 2NT even with 4 spades to the 10. Just a bit unfortunate that almost everyone else doubled and ended up in 4,5, or one table bid 6 clubs.

EDIT correction. Many tables also allowed 3S to pass and make. A couple defended it the best scores I was looking at were in Clubs, especially game

[Edge_]

thepossum, on 2020-August-31, 22:20, said:

Thx all for the interesting discussion. I'm relieved that my lack of confidence over my options was not misplaced. My logic was that I felt we could maybe defend the contract and I didn't want to risk any double however it was interpreted. I was also a bit nervous about 2NT even with 4 spades to the 10. Just a bit unfortunate that almost everyone else doubled and ended up in 4,5, or one table bid 6 clubs.

EDIT correction. Many tables also allowed 3S to pass and make. A couple defended it the best scores I was looking at were in Clubs, especially game

Don’t feel too bad, every biding system has a few weak spots. make that marginal double with 1 diamond and 4 days out of 5 partner will bid 3D back, and you will find yourself stuck too high with nowhere to go. On this hand you didn’t do too badly really since opps can make 4S But they didn’t bid it! Some hands just don’t work out!