[TonyOct57]

Does anyone have any advice to give players to try to ensure all pairs are online when a tournament starts? I use the +allavail+ option and try to send out messages, reminding players to remain online as the tournament is about to start, but there are still sometimes some delays due to registered pairs not being online. Sometimes they are late logging in to BBO or have last minute Computer or Internet problems or something else???

[paulg]

I think you need to make it the player's responsibility to be online and available when the tournament is due to start.

The +allavail+ option gives registered players respite if they have a last minute internet hitch, but you cannot hold up everyone else for too long. Basically if you are not there on time there is a very good chance that you will miss the tournament.

Although it seems reasonable to want sufficient tables to be started so that you can fill them as people eventually arrive, in practice this is more likely to create more half tables as people fail to make it. If someone has decided not to play, and failed to unregister for any reason, then it inconveniences a lot more people.

It would be even better if you could create tables after a tournament has started but that functionality has never been available in BBO and I expect it's a feature that would be very difficult to provide.

I run events for a loyal user base and it is never pleasant to tell people that they were too late. But normally they accept it is their fault and appreciate you are just doing your best.

[crazy4hoop]

Is it possible that they are in the "casual" server so BBO thinks they are not logged in. I know at one point I have asked players to be in "competitive" instead of "casual" so we can start promptly.

[kenjay]

A couple of times I have deleted the +avail+ in description after asking partner to contact missing person. This starts the tournament immediately. I allow about a minute for them to arrive before doing this, or if both are missing I just start the tournament as assume a pair is now not coming. A minute is long enough for any slight internet disconnections. The players don’t like waiting.

[bjacobs]

If you use the Chat to Tournament option, you can tell the field that we are "waiting for a few stragglers". I think about 3 to 5 minutes is an acceptable delay. After all, we've all waited for longer than that in a face-to-face game.

[Vampyr]

kenjay, on 2020-August-09, 10:21, said:

A couple of times I have deleted the +avail+ in description after asking partner to contact missing person. This starts the tournament immediately. I allow about a minute for them to arrive before doing this, or if both are missing I just start the tournament as assume a pair is now not coming. A minute is long enough for any slight internet disconnections. The players don’t like waiting.

This way you will often end up with a half table. I thought that BBO didn’t allow half tables?

[paulg]

Vampyr, on 2020-August-10, 05:51, said:

This way you will often end up with a half table. I thought that BBO didn't allow half tables?

I certainly get half tables and have the choice of maintaining a sit out during the tournament or putting in a robot pair. As the robots have won a couple of times (it's not a strong club) people are conflicted between their desire to play bridge, avoiding a sit out, and playing those 'pesky robots'.

Of course if people do arrive after the tournament has started, you can substitute them into the event if a half table exists, especially as the robots never complain if they are removed. If you start with an even number of pairs you do not have this option.

[jnichols]

bjacobs, on 2020-August-09, 22:28, said:

If you use the Chat to Tournament option, you can tell the field that we are "waiting for a few stragglers". I think about 3 to 5 minutes is an acceptable delay. After all, we've all waited for longer than that in a face-to-face game.

We allow about an extra minute for people to get online. No more than that. But we started our face-to-face games on time.

[Vampyr]

paulg, on 2020-August-10, 06:52, said:

I certainly get half tables and have the choice of maintaining a sit out during the tournament or putting in a robot pair. As the robots have won a couple of times (it's not a strong club) people are conflicted between their desire to play bridge, avoiding a sit out, and playing those 'pesky robots'.

Of course if people do arrive after the tournament has started, you can substitute them into the event if a half table exists, especially as the robots never complain if they are removed. If you start with an even number of pairs you do not have this option.

I did not know that you could have a half table.

Our club uses robots, but they would never win.

[m00036]

Vampyr, on 2020-August-10, 08:04, said:

I did not know that you could have a half table.

Our club uses robots, but they would never win.

BBO has always allowed half tables but they're understandably not that popular with players! If you sub robots in, you always have the option of the robot round scores not counting if you prefer.

Note that some NBOs (including the EBU based on their initial terms, that may have changed now that robots can be substituted in for free) do not permit Virtual Club games to run with half tables.

[Vampyr]

m00036, on 2020-August-10, 09:31, said:

BBO has always allowed half tables but they're understandably not that popular with players! If you sub robots in, you always have the option of the robot round scores not counting if you prefer.

Note that some NBOs (including the EBU based on their initial terms, that may have changed now that robots can be substituted in for free) do not permit Virtual Club games to run with half tables.

Ah our club is an EBU club.

[m00036]

Vampyr, on 2020-August-10, 10:17, said:

Ah our club is an EBU club.

I have a feeling the guidance on half tables has probably changed since the advice for virtual clubs was first released back in March/April so if you think a half table is preferable for your club then feel free to check; Most clubs avoid half tables anyway because it's time that could be spent playing against some subs or robots instead (which as mentioned before could be a round which is excluded from the results, though it might take a bit of time in EBUScore to get it right).

[pescetom]

paulg, on 2020-August-10, 06:52, said:

I certainly get half tables and have the choice of maintaining a sit out during the tournament or putting in a robot pair. As the robots have won a couple of times (it's not a strong club) people are conflicted between their desire to play bridge, avoiding a sit out, and playing those 'pesky robots'.

Of course if people do arrive after the tournament has started, you can substitute them into the event if a half table exists, especially as the robots never complain if they are removed. If you start with an even number of pairs you do not have this option.

That's pretty much our situation too. I am always happy to have a half table as I can slot in latecomers or pair a single club player up with a reliable external player.

The robots once managed to win, usually about midfield. The older players dislike them for their speed and aggressivity, but do not pretend it is "not bridge".

[Vampyr]

m00036, on 2020-August-10, 10:26, said:

I have a feeling the guidance on half tables has probably changed since the advice for virtual clubs was first released back in March/April so if you think a half table is preferable for your club then feel free to check; Most clubs avoid half tables anyway because it's time that could be spent playing against some subs or robots instead (which as mentioned before could be a round which is excluded from the results, though it might take a bit of time in EBUScore to get it right).

The robots work well. It’s perhaps a little unfair because they randomly give out tops, so those that don’t get at least one top from them are disadvantaged.

Before we were able to use a robot pair we used subs, which is not ideal because you have to have two people keeping the time free and maybe not getting a game. In addition to the host, who also may not get a game. Can the host be paired with a robot?

[paulg]

pescetom, on 2020-August-10, 14:10, said:

The robots once managed to win, usually about midfield. The older players dislike them for their speed and aggressivity, but do not pretend it is "not bridge".

Whenever we have a robot pair I warn everyone NOT to play at their pace. They still finish first of course, normally before others have finished their first hand.

[paulg]

Vampyr, on 2020-August-10, 17:35, said:

Can the host be paired with a robot?

If there is a half table the host can play with a robot if there are no subs available.

[Vampyr]

paulg, on 2020-August-11, 01:48, said:

If there is a half table the host can play with a robot if there are no subs available.

I am looking forward to trying that. (There will never be subs available, because we have only one host).

Next I am wondering if we can always give the host a game, by using three robots.

[m00036]

Vampyr, on 2020-August-11, 04:24, said:

I am looking forward to trying that. (There will never be subs available, because we have only one host).

Next I am wondering if we can always give the host a game, by using three robots.

The answer to that is not really (you can never add an extra table once the tournament has started), but there is a workaround. With 1 minute to go before registration closes (assuming that you don't get any really late entries), check the number of pairs:

- If the number of pairs is odd then you will have a sitout and you can sub the host in with a robot as normal.
- If the number of pairs is even then the host should then register themselves to play with a robot (if robots are not normally allowed, you can edit the tournament to allow them at this point). The tournament will then start with a sitout for you to sub in a robot pair.

Obviously there is a small monetary expense - the club will get most of it back from BBO and can refund the host in part, or not, depending on what they prefer. Obviously the host would normally get free entry, but I don't think it's unreasonable to charge at least some of the entry fee if they're guaranteed a game, albeit with a robot.

If you are prone to getting really late entries then this method will not always work of course.

[Vampyr]

m00036, on 2020-August-11, 05:20, said:

The answer to that is not really (you can never add an extra table once the tournament has started), but there is a workaround. With 1 minute to go before registration closes (assuming that you don't get any really late entries), check the number of pairs:

- If the number of pairs is odd then you will have a sitout and you can sub the host in with a robot as normal.
- If the number of pairs is even then the host should then register themselves to play with a robot (if robots are not normally allowed, you can edit the tournament to allow them at this point). The tournament will then start with a sitout for you to sub in a robot pair.

Obviously there is a small monetary expense - the club will get most of it back from BBO and can refund the host in part, or not, depending on what they prefer. Obviously the host would normally get free entry, but I don't think it's unreasonable to charge at least some of the entry fee if they're guaranteed a game, albeit with a robot.

If you are prone to getting really late entries then this method will not always work of course.

We don’t get late entries. The hosts are normally reimbursed by the club. If the host and the robot make up a full table, then the former should not have to pay for the robot (how much is it?). So perhaps it should be the host’s option to make up a half table with three robots, but pay the robot herself. I don’t know if an individual can engage a robot or just the club.

[m00036]

Vampyr, on 2020-August-11, 05:26, said:

We don’t get late entries. The hosts are normally reimbursed by the club. If the host and the robot make up a full table, then the former should not have to pay for the robot (how much is it?). So perhaps it should be the host’s option to make up a half table with three robots, but pay the robot herself. I don’t know if an individual can engage a robot or just the club.

Robots cost $0.25 to partner and anyone (assuming the option is enabled in director settings) can choose to play with one on their own accord. The director would have to add the robot pair to fill the sitout as normal. Obviously you can reimburse the host how you like after the session but they will be charged the standard fee (+$0.25) when registering.