[Tramticket]

AL78, on 2020-February-21, 11:41, said:

... given they were playing Acol.

I have played Acol for decades and played against Acol for decades. I can't imagine any hand where I would choose to open a four-card suit ahead of a five-card suit. It simply is not Acol.

Let's see what happens if you open 1H:
- Partner might respond 2D and things really are horrendous.It might not be ideal to rebid a five-card minor, but it is far more preferable than rebiddinv a for-card major. Any other rebid is awful: 3C shows reversing values, is forcing to game and promises at least a five-card heart suit. 2Nt shows a balanced 15+ and is forcing. A diamond raise shows 4+ support and a five-card heart suit.
- Thing aren't much better if partner responds 1S: you can't rebid NT playing a weak NT and a 2C rebid promises 5+ hearts.
- Maybe partner will respond 1NT: You might try passing, but opponents have at least 9 spades and you could be very vulnerable once the ace is dislodged. A singleton ace is a poor stop since you can't hold up. Worse is to rebid 2C and hear partner give false preference to hearts with three clubs and a doubleton heart.
- Even a 2C response might work badly - you raise clubs but partner keeps putting you back to hearts because he has a three-card heart "fit".

Personally I pass. If I were to bid, I would open 1C and be prepared to rebid the suit or open 1NT. Opening 1H is never a possibility.

[johnu]

bluenikki, on 2020-February-22, 15:42, said:

Focus on South. South expects to reach slam. So what he must avoid at all costs is bidding a bad suit.

If South responds 2♣ .....

(Of course, North does not have an opening hand. CCCC 11.40. 10.95 without the 9s)

Assuming North opens 1♣ that even most novice/beginner bidders would open (or maybe pass if not 1♣)(not the canape 1♥) what are you planning on responding? Maybe 5-3 spades is your best suit contract.

[bluenikki]

johnu, on 2020-February-22, 18:32, said:

Assuming North opens 1♣ that even most novice/beginner bidders would open (or maybe pass if not 1♣)(not the canape 1♥) what are you planning on responding? Maybe 5-3 spades is your best suit contract.

If your ambition is limited to game, that's so.

Do *you* have reliable methods to reach slam in a different suit after spades have been "agreed"? Does a novice? The way to avoid reaching slam in a suit with 2 losers is for the player who knows the hand is slam-zone to refuse to bid the suit first.

[johnu]

bluenikki, on 2020-February-22, 18:41, said:

If your ambition is limited to game, that's so.

Do *you* have reliable methods to reach slam in a different suit after spades have been "agreed"? Does a novice? The way to avoid reaching slam in a suit with 2 losers is for the player who knows the hand is slam-zone to refuse to bid the suit first.

I missed where you told me what you would respond after a 1♣ opening bid.

Well, there's always RKB to check for suit quality in spades after finding a fit if that's all you need to check. But suppose you manage to avoid a bad 5-3 (or 5-4) spade fit, and end up in clubs. You still need to avoid losing extra tricks in spades and I doubt that a non-relay pair could bid with confidence.

[bluenikki]

johnu, on 2020-February-22, 19:10, said:

I missed where you told me what you would respond after a 1♣ opening bid.

Well, there's always RKB to check for suit quality in spades after finding a fit if that's all you need to check. But suppose you manage to avoid a bad 5-3 (or 5-4) spade fit, and end up in clubs. You still need to avoid losing extra tricks in spades and I doubt that a non-relay pair could bid with confidence.

I respond whatever forcing raise is in clubs.

As to RKC that is precisely the point: you discover there is no good way to reach slam in another suit. And if the spade fit is 5-3 you may well have only one loser there if it is side suit where there are 2 losers when it is trumps.

Actually, with this kind of power, you usually want to play in NT if there is no slam. How can you do that after RKC????

[msjennifer]

Sir,as it is no one but a novice would open 1H holding the North cards.Further comments are hence totally unnecessary as also unjustified.Even going by old methods the heart suit is not is not a biddable suit.(At least Q10xx are necessary)

[AL78]

msjennifer, on 2020-February-23, 10:48, said:

Sir,as it is no one but a novice would open 1H holding the North cards.Further comments are hence totally unnecessary as also unjustified.Even going by old methods the heart suit is not is not a biddable suit.(At least Q10xx are necessary)

The North player wasn't a novice.

As for not responding 1♠ with a five card suit, claiming it is wrong to bid it just because there might be a non-zero chance of ending up in a slam with a too-weak a trump suit just sounds far too deep and OTT to me. At the time of bidding 1♠, what is the probability of that happening? If North has KQT or KQxx in spades, you might even want to be in 6♠ if a slam is on, otherwise in 6♣ you get spade to the ace, spade ruff, one down. That has happened to me once when I bid a slam in a major when we held fits in both majors, but one of those fits was missing the ace (and predictably the fit without the ace broke 4-1).

[johnu]

bluenikki, on 2020-February-22, 19:26, said:

I respond whatever forcing raise is in clubs.

As to RKC that is precisely the point: you discover there is no good way to reach slam in another suit. And if the spade fit is 5-3 you may well have only one loser there if it is side suit where there are 2 losers when it is trumps.

Sure, double dummy you can see that opener has 5 clubs. Sometimes opener only has 3 clubs, or possible even 2 clubs.

Of course, sometimes if you play in clubs, there is a spade ruff available to the defense if you play in clubs. And if spades are 5-4, good luck on finding 2 pitches for losing spades.

bluenikki, on 2020-February-22, 19:26, said:

Actually, with this kind of power, you usually want to play in NT if there is no slam. How can you do that after RKC????

Unless you are playing with GIB, you could actually bid 6NT based just on powerif you thought that was the best contract and partner would pass.

If you meant stopping in 5NT, you need a partnership agreement. One is that a bid of 5♠ asks partner to bid 5NT. Of course it is easier to stop in 5 of a major than 5 of a minor.

[Cyberyeti]

I hesitate to post what our auction would look like as it would be of no use to your novice friend.

We use a modified version of a gadget invented by Tim Bourke, so 1♣-1suit-2♣-2♦ is completely artificial inv+, so opener can describe his hand as 5♣/4♥ minimum then showing a diamond stop (so quite likely only 1 spade) at pretty low level which will be confirmed when he denies K♦ later.

[ruleof15]

AL78, on 2020-February-21, 08:48, said:

Here is a tricky hand that came up with my novice friend.

---

My friend was sitting South. Her partner decided to open 1♥ then bid 2♣ (I don't know if East weak jumped in diamonds or not, but it doesn't matter). She drove to 6♥ and North went two down. 7♣ is cold on this layout.

Whilst there are times when opening the shorter of two suits is best when holding a weak opening hand and not strong enough to reverse, I feel lying about the length of a major is dangerous here, because North doesn't have a way of steering the bidding towards a proper fit (they won't find out about the club support opposite before South drives to a slam in hearts). I think it is best to pass with the North hand initially, or if they want to open, be prepared to rebid clubs. What do you think?

[ruleof15]

Responsibilities of bidders: Opening bidder is to describe their hand as to HCP and distribution in as few bids as possible, normally two. Responder is to allow opener to describe their hand, not crowd the auction and either place the contract or invite to a contract. As far as North opening that hand, for me never! Opening a hand with a singleton spade invites overcalls by the opposition with hands which would have been passed.