mikeh, on 2018-October-15, 14:50, said:
Well, it's tough to argue with you insofar as we both rebid 2H on the given hand.
However, I expect we differ somewhat in our expectation of partner's actions. You seem to imply that you expect a 3H bid to reach a lot of losing 3N contracts. Now, if I bid 3H on this hand, I'd tend to agree with you, but even then it would be close. Were I to have a holding where I think 3H would be correct....such as making the suit KJ109xx....and one of my handful of serious regular partners over the past 20 years (there have been only 4 such) were to bid 3N, I'd expect him to make far more than half the time. In contrast, were he to bid 4H, I would be far less optimistic, to the point that I'd expect there to be quite a few layouts where the contract had little, if any, play, but that I'd be making about half the games on average.
Why? Because, imo, responder should only bid 3N, as opposed to 4♥, with significant extras and, obviously some values in all side suits. Indeed, to bid 3N with a stiff heart requires considerable values, since one would tend to downgrade a stiff heart, and upgrade, for 3N as well as 4H, a doubleton heart, especially an honour. IOW, when it is close, and game is going to be bid, one should usually bid 4H even with a stiff rather than 3N.
I do know, from having defended a lot of dubious 3N contracts, that most players don't understand (or agree?) with this idea, but my experience has been that it is clearly best to raise if one is going to game, doesn't have extras, and has only a stiff heart. Not only does a thin 3N usually have at least one suit stopped at most one time, but a skilled declarer has more tools available, in the play, in a trump contract than in a notrump contract. In addition, a below strength 3N has a tendency to fail by more than a thin 4H.
I hope this explains, at least in part, why I value the heart 10 so highly I'm used to playing 6-1 fits here.
However, I expect we differ somewhat in our expectation of partner's actions. You seem to imply that you expect a 3H bid to reach a lot of losing 3N contracts. Now, if I bid 3H on this hand, I'd tend to agree with you, but even then it would be close. Were I to have a holding where I think 3H would be correct....such as making the suit KJ109xx....and one of my handful of serious regular partners over the past 20 years (there have been only 4 such) were to bid 3N, I'd expect him to make far more than half the time. In contrast, were he to bid 4H, I would be far less optimistic, to the point that I'd expect there to be quite a few layouts where the contract had little, if any, play, but that I'd be making about half the games on average.
Why? Because, imo, responder should only bid 3N, as opposed to 4♥, with significant extras and, obviously some values in all side suits. Indeed, to bid 3N with a stiff heart requires considerable values, since one would tend to downgrade a stiff heart, and upgrade, for 3N as well as 4H, a doubleton heart, especially an honour. IOW, when it is close, and game is going to be bid, one should usually bid 4H even with a stiff rather than 3N.
I do know, from having defended a lot of dubious 3N contracts, that most players don't understand (or agree?) with this idea, but my experience has been that it is clearly best to raise if one is going to game, doesn't have extras, and has only a stiff heart. Not only does a thin 3N usually have at least one suit stopped at most one time, but a skilled declarer has more tools available, in the play, in a trump contract than in a notrump contract. In addition, a below strength 3N has a tendency to fail by more than a thin 4H.
I hope this explains, at least in part, why I value the heart 10 so highly I'm used to playing 6-1 fits here.
Very good point!