[legony]

Hi all,

I am a novice bridge player. I’ve only been playing for 8-9 months. I play fairly often with intermediate/advanced players at work during lunchtime. It’s a very casual, encouraging environment. Two of those players play duplicate at clubs regularly. Even though I am a novice, my coworkers recommended that I give duplicate a shot since there are two 0-20 MP evening games the area.

So, for the past 4-5 weeks, I’ve been attending, and enjoying myself! I honestly didn’t think I would like to play at a club. The 0-20 MP community is very encouraging and enjoyable; I find that other novices are just like me - they want to learn and become better. I’ve been arriving solo and get partnered up with another novice looking for a partner. So far so good!

Recently, since there wasn’t an extra person to partner up with me, I played with the beginners coordinator at the club. He suggested I play on a Saturday morning at a club that he manages. I told him I have ZERO MPs, but he said it’s no problem because there’s a 0-500 game and he’ll pair me up with another person looking for a partner.

So, I decided to give it a shot. I should probably mention that I am a 36 year old female and I was the youngest person by at least 15 years. I was paired up with an 80 year old man who was a really good player. I was told he was aware I am a novice. We had a chance to talk and he seemed to be encouraging.

This was my first time playing with serious, advanced players. I think at some point my partner forgot that I am still extremely new and that this was my first time playing outside of a 0-20 MP table and he criticized me several times. In one instance, I didn’t even do anything - I paused briefly (30 seconds to a minute at most) to look at my cards and ended up passing. Afterwards, he said: “What were you thinking? You really didn’t have anything to contemplate anything! I would have been very upset had you done something. You had me worried as it is.” There were a couple other times that he criticized me. I made all my contracts except one where I went down by 1 (and I knew where I made the mistake). He later told me it was awful what I did and that the opposing players who also play at an advanced level looked at him in surprise.

I don’t think we did terribly. We came in #5 overall with a few pairs below us. I felt awful when I left the club after everything was done. It ended on such discouraging note with my partner saying I made two major blunders.

I wonder if I should just stay in 0-20 games and avoid 0-500. I don’t have a regular partner to play with, so I’m at the mercy of directors/coordinators to pair me up.

[The_Badger]

Why do you think that the 80 year old man didn't have a regular partner to begin with? Possible answer: nobody wants to play with him. It is incredibly rude for someone who is experienced to criticise a novice, especially having been told your level. Persevere with the 0-500 game but ask the directors never to pair him with you again. You will get better at bridge playing with and against better players: if you can accept some constructive criticism and guidance offered in a friendly way after the boards have been played - this is usually called 'the post mortem' - then you will learn.

There's a way of saying things to people. Manners cost nothing.

[pescetom]

Don't despair, you were actually quite lucky - often insensitive experienced players will totally humiliate a novice to the point of giving up the game altogether, it's one of the blights of this game. It sounds like you have enough objectivity and self-esteem to avoid that, but beware that you may be in for worse in future.
The solution? Don't let them do it, remind them that you are a novice and need patient help, not criticism - if they still can't behave reasonably then avoid them in future. You'll soon build up relations with all the other players and find more appropriate partners.

[legony]

Thanks to the two of you for your feedback! I won’t give up on the Saturday 0-500 morning game. I will go next week. When I send the club manager an email about needing a partner, I will be sure to mention I am open to playing with anyone who is ok that I am a newcomer to duplicate. I’d rather NOT play in 0-500 unless I have someone who is ok that I have only been playing for 8-9 months.

I like to discuss hands and ask questions (re: post-mortem or during the mini break). It helps me better grasp the lessons I read about in Bridge 101 books.

I will continue attending the 0-20 MP evening at the other club too.

[barmar]

As others have said, his behavior was totally inappropriate. You shouldn't talk to any partner like that, let alone a beginner.

And if this guy has been playing for many years and can still play in the 0-500 games, he's probably not really that good a player, so he has no business giving lessons to others (this isn't a certainty -- he might have plenty of experience in social bridge, but doesn't play in many tournaments).

Don't let it put you off the more advanced games. There are plenty of players who are willing to mentor novices and will treat you well. Playing against tougher competition is the best way to learn. The 0-20 games may be more relaxed, but you won't improve as much by sticking to them.

[pescetom]

barmar, on 2018-August-26, 13:45, said:

And if this guy has been playing for many years and can still play in the 0-500 games, he's probably not really that good a player, so he has no business giving lessons to others (this isn't a certainty -- he might have plenty of experience in social bridge, but doesn't play in many tournaments).

As someone who was quite recently a novice, I don't think that is at all certain.
Certainly the opponents who give you a hard time are rarely much good, and you soon come to realise that with relief.
But my worst experiences of criticism and humilation from partners came from people who are good indeed but have been playing far too long to remember that what now seems obvious was once a difficult lesson.
Now I do my best to ensure that in our bridge club novices are mentored by skilful but tolerant players.

[legony]

Thanks all! You’re definitely right. The club manager who invited me to the Saturday 0-500 game told me that the best way to learn is to jump into the 0-500 games.

At every table, my partner began by saying, “I’m Henry. This is L*** - she’s new to the game, just wanted to let you know.” No big deal to me. At one table, the opposing partners said I played well and will continue to learn. They said the man I was partnered up with was very good.

I told them that I am semi-newish and am slowly but surely approaching a full year since I first began playing with coworkers who are really good and play often.

My partner then said, “so you’re saying your coworkers are better than us.”
It was an odd sarcastic comment. I said, no of course not.

That is not at all what I meant - I was just sharing with the opponents after we completed the boards that I’m thankful to be able to play with bridge players during during the work week at lunch.

Two hours later, when all was said and done, my partner reiterated that I really made a blunder by going down by 1 in the final board. He then said: “you really should come here again and play with your coworkers.”

At the time, I didn’t realize he was making a passive-aggressive comment at me, so I just said: “I only play with my coworkers at lunch during the work week. They play at clubs in their local counties. They don’t live near here.”

I think I understand why one of my coworkers is mentoring two new people at playing bridge at the moment. I think her hope is that if these two particular novices learn together and play duplicate together, they won’t have to go through the process of finding partners as a solo novice player.

[661_Pete]

Hi - don't be disheartened by a rude partner - as others have said, behaving like that, he probably finds it difficult to get a partner and even more difficult to keep them!

Also bear in mind that even experienced players sometimes have to endure the 'treatment'! It varies from club to club. I suppose I'm justified in describing myself as fairly 'experienced' now - and I've been there! What I did was give up on the club where this happened, where I was trying out for the first time as a guest. I then joined a different club. And the one I joined doesn't have that problem! OK - occasionally a player will have a brief pop at partner after a specific blunder, but going on about it again at the end of the session is definitely a no-no!

Btw, I don't recognise the "0-20" or "0-500" terminology: is this a ranking system used in the USA? Here in Britain, EBU-affiliated clubs award local MPs - commonly up to around 40 per session - based on the number of tables, number of boards, and movement system.

[legony]

Thanks, Pete!

0-20 = an area reserved at club games for people/novices with 0-20 MPs. There is a beginner coordinator who is in charge of answering any questions and/or providing some minimal guidance, if needed.

[ggwhiz]

When I started it was quite the process to sort players into ones I would happily play with and the no shortage of over my dead body types. There is no painless way to do it and good for you and your can do attitude.

The best way was when groups would go to a designated watering hole for a post-mortem after the game. Sadly not likely available these days but if such a thing exists find out and invite yourself.

Over the last few years I have been asked by newcomers how to approach online play and tell them that once they are fast enough to play a few acbl speedball individuals. Take note of the opponents as well as your partners demeanor and you will soon find a few that you can invite to partner in the regular games.

Perhaps a similar approach will help at the club and I do recommend building your own list of potentials, start booking your own games and shorten the time you are at the mercy of the matchmakers. When I thought I was ready to step up I asked a very good player for a game and he agreed. I played like a nervous pooch and he said "You're better than this, we're playing again tomorrow". A little scary sometimes but I ran into this guy at a tournament last month, 30 years later and our post mortem after that game was epic.

[barmar]

legony, on 2018-August-26, 16:50, said:

I told them that I am semi-newish and am slowly but surely approaching a full year since I first began playing with coworkers who are really good and play often.

My partner then said, “so you’re saying your coworkers are better than us.”
It was an odd sarcastic comment. I said, no of course not.

I think this may have been meant as a self-deprecating joke, not as a sarcastic or passive-aggressive comment.

[legony]

My hope is that eventually I will be matched up with at least one or two individuals who I will click with on a partner basis. It would be terrific to play with at least one or two consistently and develop partnerships. I plan on attending the Saturday club game for this reason - plus, the Thursday club game too. Meeting more folks, socializing, etc.

barmar, on 2018-August-27, 08:59, said:

I think this may have been meant as a self-deprecating joke, not as a sarcastic or passive-aggressive comment.

I thought so too! I can be self-deprecating many times, but the atmosphere when he said it at the table was tangibly uncomfortable. Ah well.

[HardVector]

Try not to get intimidated by people who have LOTS of masterpoints. This sometimes is not an indication of ability or knowledge. In my experience, the number 1 abused and misunderstood bidding convention is....takeout doubles. One of the very first things that people learn is the one that is screwed up the most. So, if you receive criticism, try to accept it and then check up on it. Look up the situation in a book. Trust expert bridge professionals before the opinions of a local club "expert" 100% of the time.

[eagles123]

you might well have made "two major blunders", but your partner made the most major blunder there is in bridge, not being a good partner.

I really wouldn't worry, we all make mistakes etc when learning, it's not easy! I think most people are welcoming to new players, but occasionally you get a see u next tuesday lol.

better luck next time, I hope u have a better experience

[rmnka447]

661_Pete, on 2018-August-27, 02:48, said:

Btw, I don't recognise the "0-20" or "0-500" terminology: is this a ranking system used in the USA? Here in Britain, EBU-affiliated clubs award local MPs - commonly up to around 40 per session - based on the number of tables, number of boards, and movement system.

Yes, masterpoints are awarded for winning and placing in club games and tournament events. A player's ranking is by total cumulative masterpoints earned. Various categories of rank are assigned by the cumulative number of points won. Currently, to become a Life Master in the US, you must accumulate 500+ masterpoints plus some additional requirements that some of those points be won in sectional and regional tournaments.

Additionally, the fields in club games and tournaments are stratified by the most total points by either partner in a pair, so that some masterpoints can be awarded to players in each strata. Also, some clubs games and tournament events can be limited to players with specific maximum masterpoint totals. Some clubs in our are, for example, run simultaneous stratified open pairs games and stratified 0-199 pairs games. Masterpoints are easy enough to win so that 0-20 game is basically a beginner's game. A 0-500 game is basically a non-Life Master game.

[rmnka447]

The first thing that struck me about your experience was that the "beginning coordinator" suggested that you play in the 0-500 game. Cynically, one might think this was only to increase attendance at that game. But more likely, it was that the coordinator recognized some promise in your game and thought that a little better level of competition might be more helpful to your improvement.

IMO, your partner at the 0-500 game was entirely out of bounds. As a first time player at that game and a very new bridge player, it was entirely inappropriate to act that way to you.

Your attitude and willingness to learn are commendable. Playing in competitive duplicate games can seem a bit daunting at first, but keep with it. There is a bit of a learning curve that you have to go through, but gradually you ability to play and enjoyment of the game will improve. So stick with it.

Many club games now have pre-dealt boards that permit hand records to be available after the game. If one of the games you play in have them, you should get a copy and go back over the hands with your results and see if you can find items to improve on. With electronic scorepads in use, many clubs are now able to post results on-line including not only the matchpoints but the resultant score and the contract played. Going over those to understand how your results differed from the par result or top result can be useful.

If you have a hand where you can't figure out how to do better, then maybe you can seek help from a good player. You might ask the coordinator who would be good to approach if you need that help.

I often stay some extra time to help the manager of my "home" club game answer questions that newer players have on boards. Those of us who love the game know that the only way that the game will survive and remain vibrant is to help the newer players become better and help grow the game.

[legony]

Thanks all!

rmnka447, on 2018-August-27, 15:01, said:

The first thing that struck me about your experience was that the "beginning coordinator" suggested that you play in the 0-500 game. Cynically, one might think this was only to increase attendance at that game. But more likely, it was that the coordinator recognized some promise in your game and thought that a little better level of competition might be more helpful to your improvement.

Many club games now have pre-dealt boards that permit hand records to be available after the game. If one of the games you play in have them, you should get a copy and go back over the hands with your results and see if you can find items to improve on. With electronic scorepads in use, many clubs are now able to post results on-line including not only the matchpoints but the resultant score and the contract played. Going over those to understand how your results differed from the par result or top result can be useful.

You are definitely right. The Saturday morning game gets a pretty decent turnout. About 160 people. The club manager/beginners coordinator said the level of play at the Saturday 0-500 game is a better learning experience than 0-20. His suggestion was not to abandon the 0-20 Thursday game, but to add the 0-500 game into my weekly routine whenever possible.

Thankfully, all of the local clubs in my area post club game/board results in that way - I love going back and checking out how the others bid/played when I get home! :-)

[661_Pete]

I should make it clear that, at my present club, no-one - repeat, no-one - is outside of my consideration as a potential partner. I haven't established myself with a regular partner, so I've played with many different people, thus far. And all comers there are welcome!

Of course, others have quietly hinted to me that certain members are a bit below-par: "So-and-so isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer" etc. etc. Well, I've played with the same "so-and-so", and, true, they do sometimes make mistakes. Maybe more than an average player. I can live with it!

Incidentally, the EBU's NGS (National Grading Scheme) is supposed to compensate if you play with a lower-grade partner. I don't know how the system works - it's all some complex computer algorithm I reckon. But my current placement is reasonably high - though I should explain I'm currently 'evolving'. And I've had my share of 'bottoms'!

[661_Pete]

Possibly the "0-20" standard is roughly equivalent to the Chicago-scored section of my local U3A - which I've now forsaken in favour of pairs at an EBU-affiliated club.

In the Chicago, it was as informal as it gets! Players were encouraged to explain their own bids, no-one minded if a player retracted a bid or a card played, no penalising for flouting the Laws; it was commonplace for a player to summon one of the resident experts for advice during the auction, etc. etc.

I have to admit, it was that last which I found a bit trying. It does hold up the game so! Having an opponent make an opening bid, then to be utterly flummoxed as to what to rebid after partner reponds, and to call for assistance: that shouldn't be happening amongst players who've had even a modicum of training. One of the first things you're taught surely, is that (in Acol), if you make an opening bid of one of a suit, you've got to have a re-bid.

But some beginners have a slow learning-curve, perhaps. It's evident that Legony's not like that!

[barmar]

661_Pete, on 2018-August-28, 02:21, said:

Possibly the "0-20" standard is roughly equivalent to the Chicago-scored section of my local U3A - which I've now forsaken in favour of pairs at an EBU-affiliated club.

In the Chicago, it was as informal as it gets! Players were encouraged to explain their own bids, no-one minded if a player retracted a bid or a card played, no penalising for flouting the Laws; it was commonplace for a player to summon one of the resident experts for advice during the auction, etc. etc.

This sounds more like the games our club runs for a couple of months after our annual beginner class. Our games aren't big enough to have a separate novice section throughout the year, we generally only get 7-8 tables.