[Winstonm]

South knows there is probably a club fit, but an 11-trick contract looks
too ambitious. A negative double will probably invite a Moysian heart
game. The diamond suit looks too puny to bid at the 4 level and that
bypasses 3N anyway.

What to do?

---

[Cyberyeti]

I don't know where I want to be even seeing the NS hands, looks like nothing makes anyway.

[DozyDom]

I'll probably double and go down hideously in hearts, or very little in clubs, I guess. Though I am a little tempted to psyche a stop for 3NT...

I'd definitely be tempted by 4D (which I'm not convinced is forcing), which would turn out pretty well as it happens - it's certainly a decent bid playing a short club/unbalanced diamond.

No matter what happens, I won't be too traumatised since the other table will be dealing with the same overcall; things can't go too obscenely.

[Winstonm]

And it's not the opening bid that is the problem, as if North passes and it starts P-3S-? you have the same situation.

[ggwhiz]

I would pass the north hand at least some of the time and after 3♠ double consider 3nt before I bid 4♥ and go out the door.

Having opened I would fake a heart attack and hope for a caddy to sub that doesn't know how to bid so might pass.

[kuhchung]

south doubles, north bids whatever, you go down a bunch, next board

[rmnka447]

Unless your partnership is super aggressive opening hands, and even probably still if you do, you've got to make some call with the South hand.

I think you just make the pedestrian negative double call and hope partner can make it if you end up in a Moysian 4 ♥ contract. Any other bid is just trying to mastermind what the best result will be. I have a good enough hand that I can easily defend that double call in the post mortem. Where I don't want to be is trying to defend any other action when partner shows up with a hand where partner has a clear cut 3 NT call and we miss it, say, ♠ KQJ ♥ A10x ♦ xx ♣ QJxxx.

As for North's opener, it's just not a bid I'd make.

[Winstonm]

rmnka447, on 2018-May-29, 15:45, said:

Unless your partnership is super aggressive opening hands, and even probably still if you do, you've got to make some call with the South hand.

I think you just make the pedestrian negative double call and hope partner can make it if you end up in a Moysian 4 ♥ contract. Any other bid is just trying to mastermind what the best result will be. I have a good enough hand that I can easily defend that double call in the post mortem. Where I don't want to be is trying to defend any other action when partner shows up with a hand where partner has a clear cut 3 NT call and we miss it, say, ♠ KQJ ♥ A10x ♦ xx ♣ QJxxx.

As for North's opener, it's just not a bid I'd make.

Me, either, but on the actual hand I made a negative double and we played 4H. This was not a success.

[ahydra]

South doubles and North bids 3NT. His hand is full of quacks and partner doesn't promise four hearts at this level. And he might even make it, for example if playing against two Mrs Guggenheims who lead ♠A and another, or an Unlucky Expert who leads a non-spade since he has no entries.

ahydra

[nekthen]

Winstonm, on 2018-May-29, 13:46, said:

And it's not the opening bid that is the problem, as if North passes and it starts P-3S-? you have the same situation.

Disagree

P- 3S - dbl - p
4c - p - p - p

As an Acol player I am sure I would open 1N. Now 3S is a real pain but I think it should go dbl 4C

Even after 1C 3S dbl p, I would surely show my 5 card club suit in preference to my hearts

[PhilG007]

I wonder what advanced GIB would bid on the South hand after the auction given...just for my curiosity.?

[pescetom]

Winstonm, on 2018-May-29, 16:09, said:

Me, either, but on the actual hand I made a negative double and we played 4H. This was not a success.

Preempts work, often.
But I don't see any choice, and it would only take a small change in the cards for 4H to make.

[PhilG007]

Winstonm, on 2018-May-29, 16:09, said:

Me, either, but on the actual hand I made a negative double and we played 4H. This was not a success.

Yet another example of being gazumped. Part and parcel of the game I'm afraid(!)

[MrAce]

Deleted nonsense

[msjennifer]

Personally since nowa days 3Sx is a negative double I have no sensible bid.However.I can assure that my partner will not open that wretched hand .

[maartenxq]

Winstonm, on 2018-May-29, 13:16, said:

What to do?

i dbl and be down in 3 nt. Bad luck.

Maarten Baltussen

[kenberg]

If my clone and I hold the NS cards the auction surely begins 1C - (3S ) - X.
I assume the opponents subsequently pass, pass, and pass, leaving us to our fate.

It is always difficult to be sure of what I would do but I think our side would continue 3H- 3S.
Why 3H rather than, as suggested, rebidding the clubs with the N hand? Because partner has made a negative double and so he either has four hearts or some plan for after my bid of 3H.
With the strong S hand we are going to game, and I think the 3S shows a hand that agrees to play in game but is not sure where.

Now it gets, maybe, a bit uncertain. But not very uncertain, imo.

Probably N bids 3NT on his KJ of spades. This will not go well, assuming E starts with the spade T. N takes the Q with the K and then perhaps decides that he is not making this no matter where the diamond K and heart A are, so he cashes out for 7 tricks. If by any chance E opts for a passive lead he will much regret it since I think N can then bring in the contract. We should all be so lucky.

I doubt that N would bid 5C over 3S but maybe so. A heart lead would lead to down 2. Heart to the A, heart 3 back, ruffed, now the diamond 9 as W suggested with the heart 3. Well yes, at least at imps E might cash the spade A first. Doesn't matter. EW get two aces, a K, and a ruff.

I regard the N hand as an opening hand and S is then going to insist on game. Not all games make.

[Winstonm]

nekthen, on 2018-May-30, 03:39, said:

Disagree

P- 3S - dbl - p
4c - p - p - p

As an Acol player I am sure I would open 1N. Now 3S is a real pain but I think it should go dbl 4C

Even after 1C 3S dbl p, I would surely show my 5 card club suit in preference to my hearts

Not trying to criticize or start an argument, but I find it curious that you would bid a club suit partial instead of the heart suit game when partner has strongly suggested hearts with his takeout double. Is there some reasoning behind your choice or perhaps you play the double of 3S differently?

[Winstonm]

kuhchung, on 2018-May-29, 15:23, said:

south doubles, north bids whatever, you go down a bunch, next board

I agree - take your best guess and move on. Personally, I like the negative double because of the extra strength might overcome the 4/3 fit.