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Psycking (UK)

#1 User is offline   TMorris 

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Posted 2017-September-03, 05:04

It was suggested to me that one needs a minimum point count in order to psyche? I have never heard of this & it makes no sense to me so can anyone tell me if it is the case or not?
Thanks
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#2 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2017-September-03, 05:18

 TMorris, on 2017-September-03, 05:04, said:

It was suggested to me that one needs a minimum point count in order to psyche? I have never heard of this & it makes no sense to me so can anyone tell me if it is the case or not?
Thanks


This is not true.

Consider the following hand / auction

White versus Red
Match points

The auction starts

(P) - 3D - (X) - ???

You hold

S 5432
H 432
D 5432
C 43

If I were to bid 3N with this hand, it would be a psyche.
Alderaan delenda est
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#3 User is offline   The_Badger 

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Posted 2017-September-03, 05:19

At the right vulnerability, and in 3rd position, if you open a weak two with let's say 9876542 xx xxxx void, is that a psyche? A barrage bid, yes, but hardly a psyche given the vulnerability.
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#4 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2017-September-03, 05:53

 hrothgar, on 2017-September-03, 05:18, said:

Consider the following hand / auction

White versus Red
Match points

The auction starts

(P) - 3D - (X) - ???

You hold

S 5432
H 432
D 5432
C 43

If I were to bid 3N with this hand, it would be a psyche.

Why is bidding 3N (= to play) when you really want to play 3N (undoubled, at least) a psyche?
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#5 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2017-September-03, 06:31

 TMorris, on 2017-September-03, 05:04, said:

It was suggested to me that one needs a minimum point count in order to psyche? I have never heard of this & it makes no sense to me so can anyone tell me if it is the case or not?
Thanks

I suspect it's a misunderstanding of the fact that a psych is defined as a gross deviation. This means that a call that is only a slight deviation from your stated methods is not a psych and in certain circumstances might be deemed to be an implicit agreement.
Gordon Rainsford
London UK
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#6 User is offline   TMorris 

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Posted 2017-September-03, 06:35

 gordontd, on 2017-September-03, 06:31, said:

I suspect it's a misunderstanding of the fact that a psych is defined as a gross deviation. This means that a call that is only a slight deviation from your stated methods is not a psych and in certain circumstances might be deemed to be an implicit agreement.


Thanks Gordon.
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#7 User is offline   steve2005 

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Posted 2017-September-03, 09:00

Why would you need a min point count to Psych? The whole point of a Psyche is it's not within your agreement and often not even close.
So if it's not restricted by that agreement why would it be subject to some other restriction?
Sarcasm is a state of mind
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#8 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2017-September-04, 09:19

 nullve, on 2017-September-03, 05:53, said:

Why is bidding 3N (= to play) when you really want to play 3N (undoubled, at least) a psyche?

Suppose you ask the preempter "What kind of hand do you think your partner is showing with that bid?" Won't he most likely say that he expects controls in the side suits? The hand has nothing like that, and has practically no prospects of actually making 3NT. The only purpose of the bid was a bluff, to make the opponents think that they don't have a game.

#9 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2017-September-04, 13:27

Seems to me that the proper response to this claim is "I'm from Missouri. Show me."
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#10 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2017-September-04, 15:23

 barmar, on 2017-September-04, 09:19, said:

Suppose you ask the preempter "What kind of hand do you think your partner is showing with that bid?" Won't he most likely say that he expects controls in the side suits? The hand has nothing like that, and has practically no prospects of actually making 3NT. The only purpose of the bid was a bluff, to make the opponents think that they don't have a game.

I just don't understand why 3N has to show willingness to play 3N doubled (as well as undoubled) in order to be natural. And if it doesn't, why should the preempter say that he expects controls in the side suits?
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#11 User is offline   sfi 

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Posted 2017-September-04, 15:46

 barmar, on 2017-September-04, 09:19, said:

Suppose you ask the preempter "What kind of hand do you think your partner is showing with that bid?" Won't he most likely say that he expects controls in the side suits? The hand has nothing like that, and has practically no prospects of actually making 3NT. The only purpose of the bid was a bluff, to make the opponents think that they don't have a game.


Does anybody really give that answer? My typical response is "don't know, don't care - partner is not asking my opinion," and that's what I would expect from an opponent. Anything beyond that sounds like guesswork rather than partnership agreement.
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