[TMorris]

It was suggested to me that one needs a minimum point count in order to psyche? I have never heard of this & it makes no sense to me so can anyone tell me if it is the case or not?
Thanks

[hrothgar]

 TMorris, on 2017-September-03, 05:04, said:

It was suggested to me that one needs a minimum point count in order to psyche? I have never heard of this & it makes no sense to me so can anyone tell me if it is the case or not?
Thanks

This is not true.

Consider the following hand / auction

White versus Red
Match points

The auction starts

(P) - 3D - (X) - ???

You hold

S 5432
H 432
D 5432
C 43

If I were to bid 3N with this hand, it would be a psyche.

[The_Badger]

At the right vulnerability, and in 3rd position, if you open a weak two with let's say ♠9876542 ♥xx ♦xxxx ♣void, is that a psyche? A barrage bid, yes, but hardly a psyche given the vulnerability.

[nullve]

 hrothgar, on 2017-September-03, 05:18, said:

Consider the following hand / auction

White versus Red
Match points

The auction starts

(P) - 3D - (X) - ???

You hold

S 5432
H 432
D 5432
C 43

If I were to bid 3N with this hand, it would be a psyche.

Why is bidding 3N (= to play) when you really want to play 3N (undoubled, at least) a psyche?

[gordontd]

 TMorris, on 2017-September-03, 05:04, said:

It was suggested to me that one needs a minimum point count in order to psyche? I have never heard of this & it makes no sense to me so can anyone tell me if it is the case or not?
Thanks

I suspect it's a misunderstanding of the fact that a psych is defined as a gross deviation. This means that a call that is only a slight deviation from your stated methods is not a psych and in certain circumstances might be deemed to be an implicit agreement.

[TMorris]

 gordontd, on 2017-September-03, 06:31, said:

I suspect it's a misunderstanding of the fact that a psych is defined as a gross deviation. This means that a call that is only a slight deviation from your stated methods is not a psych and in certain circumstances might be deemed to be an implicit agreement.

Thanks Gordon.

[steve2005]

Why would you need a min point count to Psych? The whole point of a Psyche is it's not within your agreement and often not even close.
So if it's not restricted by that agreement why would it be subject to some other restriction?

[barmar]

 nullve, on 2017-September-03, 05:53, said:

Why is bidding 3N (= to play) when you really want to play 3N (undoubled, at least) a psyche?

Suppose you ask the preempter "What kind of hand do you think your partner is showing with that bid?" Won't he most likely say that he expects controls in the side suits? The hand has nothing like that, and has practically no prospects of actually making 3NT. The only purpose of the bid was a bluff, to make the opponents think that they don't have a game.

[blackshoe]

Seems to me that the proper response to this claim is "I'm from Missouri. Show me."

[nullve]

 barmar, on 2017-September-04, 09:19, said:

Suppose you ask the preempter "What kind of hand do you think your partner is showing with that bid?" Won't he most likely say that he expects controls in the side suits? The hand has nothing like that, and has practically no prospects of actually making 3NT. The only purpose of the bid was a bluff, to make the opponents think that they don't have a game.

I just don't understand why 3N has to show willingness to play 3N doubled (as well as undoubled) in order to be natural. And if it doesn't, why should the preempter say that he expects controls in the side suits?

[sfi]

 barmar, on 2017-September-04, 09:19, said:

Suppose you ask the preempter "What kind of hand do you think your partner is showing with that bid?" Won't he most likely say that he expects controls in the side suits? The hand has nothing like that, and has practically no prospects of actually making 3NT. The only purpose of the bid was a bluff, to make the opponents think that they don't have a game.

Does anybody really give that answer? My typical response is "don't know, don't care - partner is not asking my opinion," and that's what I would expect from an opponent. Anything beyond that sounds like guesswork rather than partnership agreement.