Slam despite misfit?
#1
Posted 2017-March-02, 03:44
Partner opens first seat r/r MP, uncontested. 1♦ is SA style, basically (with a 6322 shape and 15-17 she might have opened 1NT, up/downgrades are infrequent).
1♦-2♣* (*natural GF, not MAFIA)
2♦**-2♠*** (** tends to be a 6-card suit. ***3♠ would be splinter)
3♦-3♠
3NT-?
#2
Posted 2017-March-02, 10:01
* I expect it to be easier to make 11 tricks in 5♣ than 9 tricks in 3N;
* I doubt we can bid 6♣ with any confidence on the rare occasions when it's right. (Well, maybe partner will be able to raise 5♣ to 6.)
#4
Posted 2017-March-02, 11:03
#5
Posted 2017-March-02, 13:15
eagles123, on 2017-March-02, 11:03, said:
We haven't shown a hand where the club suit works as trumps opposite a singleton.
Your hand might be waste paper in 3N if partner has a stiff spade and they lead one. You might also fail if they lead a heart taking out partner's stop and cash a bundle of them when in with A♣. This is a suit play hand at this stage, why is 4♣ minorwood ? should be natural and would be what I bid here.
#7
Posted 2017-March-02, 14:25
Cyberyeti, on 2017-March-02, 13:15, said:
Your hand might be waste paper in 3N if partner has a stiff spade and they lead one. You might also fail if they lead a heart taking out partner's stop and cash a bundle of them when in with A♣. This is a suit play hand at this stage, why is 4♣ minorwood ? should be natural and would be what I bid here.
when we've shown a 6-5 it's hardly news of the century that our points are in our long suits
#8
Posted 2017-March-02, 15:00
Have you misrepresented your hand by a GF 2 ♣ followed by bidding ♠ twice?
Once you've described your hand and partner has made a decision, you have to respect partner's decision. If it's wrong, it's on him/her.
Yeah, your hand might be useless at NT if partner holds a stiff ♠, but you have no reason to believe that's the case. You're a favorite to deliver 7 tricks at NT if partner has a doubleton ♠.
Bidding again is rebidding your values a second time which is rarely right.
#9
Posted 2017-March-02, 16:55
helene_t, on 2017-March-02, 03:44, said:
Partner opens first seat r/r MP, uncontested. 1♦ is SA style, basically (with a 6322 shape and 15-17 she might have opened 1NT, up/downgrades are infrequent).
1♦-2♣* (*natural GF, not MAFIA)
2♦**-2♠*** (** tends to be a 6-card suit. ***3♠ would be splinter)
3♦-3♠
3NT-?
Agreeing with majority. I rank
- Pass = NAT. You've described your hand to partner and he's made a decision. You can justify your pass in the post-mortem even if better contracts are available. 3N is likely to have play. Even with your hand exposed as dummy, 3N might be hard to defend. A typical hand for partner: ♠ Q x ♥ K Q T ♦ A J x x x x x ♣ x
- 4♣ = NAT. F1. Allows partner to prefer ♠s. Your bidding hasn't promised a 1-loser ♣ suit. Even 6♣ has good chances opposite, say ♠ x x ♥ A K ♦ Q x x x x x x ♣ A x
- 4♠ = NAT. But a distortion since the bid should show more shape.
- Other = Weird.
#11
Posted 2017-March-03, 11:57
Guess you where holding a 6205 pattern.
If I play a system where you only can show a 6 card from a 6-5 pattern I would play a different system.
If your are stuck with your system accept you will/can miss the best contract.
#12
Posted 2017-March-03, 12:32
Cyberyeti, on 2017-March-02, 16:55, said:
aawk, on 2017-March-03, 11:57, said:
Guess you where holding a 6205 pattern.
You read the ♠10 as ♠1 and ♠0?
#13
Posted 2017-March-03, 14:47
But I do take exception to the fact that 2D over 2C shows 6+. Maybe that's your bidding style, but it's not a good treatment. Rebidding 2D on almost all hands with 5+ diamonds is more or less standard nowadays and generally works out much better.
Cheers,
mike
#14
Posted 2017-March-03, 17:19
aawk, on 2017-March-03, 11:57, said:
Guess you where holding a 6205 pattern.
If I play a system where you only can show a 6 card from a 6-5 pattern I would play a different system.
If your are stuck with your system accept you will/can miss the best contract.
Try actually reading, 5206 AKJTx I just spelt out the 10
#16
Posted 2017-March-04, 02:12
However, is it right to continue? For a slam in clubs to be right partner needs solid values in the reds (Ak, KQJ, etc) rather than slow values (AQ9, KJ10 etc) so that we can dump our low spades. Also, pard does not know our clubs are (for practical purposes) semi-solid, so will incline to 3NT with, say, 9x in clubs.
I would pass reluctantly at the table and would not be surprised to find that 6C is making.
#17
Posted 2017-March-04, 14:32
mdgraham, on 2017-March-04, 02:12, said:
However, is it right to continue? For a slam in clubs to be right partner needs solid values in the reds (Ak, KQJ, etc) rather than slow values (AQ9, KJ10 etc) so that we can dump our low spades. Also, pard does not know our clubs are (for practical purposes) semi-solid, so will incline to 3NT with, say, 9x in clubs.
I would pass reluctantly at the table and would not be surprised to find that 6C is making.
I would be more worried 3N wasn't making but 5♣ was
#18
Posted 2017-March-04, 14:33
eagles123, on 2017-March-02, 11:03, said:
I would certainly overrule 3NT Hands that don't fit in a suit,very often don't
fit in No Trumps either(!)
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster
Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)
"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
#19
Posted 2017-March-04, 15:24
PhilG007, on 2017-March-04, 14:33, said:
fit in No Trumps either(!)
I reckon that one case for passing is that you haven't (yet) been doubled.
Love the thread title. Here we are worried about which game might have a chance of making.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mstr-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#20
Posted 2017-March-05, 04:53
eagles123, on 2017-March-02, 11:03, said:
rmnka447, on 2017-March-02, 15:00, said:
miamijd, on 2017-March-03, 14:47, said:
aawk, on 2017-March-03, 23:56, said:
1eyedjack, on 2017-March-04, 15:24, said:
Maybe 5♣ is wrong, but there must still be exceptions to the rule
'If you've shown your hand and partner bids 3N, you must pass.'
(Consider childish examples such as a 3♥ opening showing 37 hcp.)