[gordontd]

jallerton, on 2016-September-03, 10:01, said:

Well in the case reported to me which inspired this thread, there does not seem to have been any specific prohibition of psyches (or misbids). There was a list of permitted conventions, with a statement at the end saying:

"Please do not use prohibited conventions or you will be warned and might be penalised"

Is there any way in which , when the partnership understanding itself is permitted, psyching (or misbidding) could be interpreted as being caught by this restriction?

I'm always sceptical of claims to have psyched when it appears to be a minor deviation with the aim of getting around a regulation. But if it really is a gross deviation, that shouldn't be the case and doesn't seem to be covered by the regulation you quote.

[blackshoe]

pran, on 2016-September-03, 07:11, said:

"Action" in Law 74A2 does not refer to any legal call or play.
However, a psych that is in conflict with relevant regulations and/or CoC could indeed be treated as a violation of L74A4.

So a legal call or play is not an action? Where is this stated in the laws?

There is no 74A4 in my law book.

[barmar]

pran, on 2016-September-03, 07:11, said:

"Action" in Law 74A2 does not refer to any legal call or play.
However, a psych that is in conflict with relevant regulations and/or CoC could indeed be treated as a violation of L74A4.

Could a club run a "no penalty doubles" event?

[blackshoe]

barmar, on 2016-September-03, 14:31, said:

Could a club run a "no penalty doubles" event?

Sure. But they should probably call it a "no bridge" event.

[barmar]

blackshoe, on 2016-September-03, 14:31, said:

So a legal call or play is not an action? Where is this stated in the laws?

I think we just have to say that it's not reasonable for a player to enter a game knowingly, and then take offense from actions that are to be expected as part of the game. If you play tennis, you shouldn't be offended if your opponent makes a great passing shot against you.

If you're offended or embarassed by these things, you can't play the game.

No, it's not in the laws, it's just common sense.

[blackshoe]

I would accept that a legal call or play is not among the actions to which Law 74A2 refers. Technically, since psyching a natural bid is legal (and cannot be made illegal by regulation), the director cannot use 74A2 to penalize a psych. But it was about the only thing I could come up with at the time. Now, I would say perhaps that the CoC should say "psyching of natural bids, while legal, is deprecated in this event. If a player insists on psyching, he will be asked not to return." As to an actual psych at the table, there is no legal recourse, "simple systems night" notwithstanding.

[pran]

blackshoe, on 2016-September-03, 14:31, said:

So a legal call or play is not an action? Where is this stated in the laws?

There is no 74A4 in my law book.

A legal call or play is not an "action" as referred to in Law 74A2.

It happens ever so often that I am annoyed or embarrassed by an opponent's (legal) call or play, but I would certainly bed the laughing stock if I tried to claim violation of Law 74A2 when this happens.

And neither is there any 74A4 in my law book; did you have any problem understanding that this was a simple typo for 74A2?

[Vampyr]

blackshoe, on 2016-September-03, 15:16, said:

I would accept that a legal call or play is not among the actions to which Law 74A2 refers. Technically, since psyching a natural bid is legal (and cannot be made illegal by regulation), the director cannot use 74A2 to penalize a psych.

It does not seem that psyching artificial bids was prohibited either in this tournament. But in a Simple Systems event there will not be very many artificial bids, so I guess it does not matter!

[barmar]

pran, on 2016-September-03, 16:31, said:

It happens ever so often that I am annoyed or embarrassed by an opponent's (legal) call or play, but I would certainly bed the laughing stock if I tried to claim violation of Law 74A2 when this happens.

Do you often use sex to recover from embarassment?

Quote

And neither is there any 74A4 in my law book; did you have any problem understanding that this was a simple typo for 74A2?

There's no prohibition against causing embarassment in the forum.

[blackshoe]

It was not my intent to cause embarrassment, but rather to confirm whether "74A4" was a typo for 74A2 or for something else.

[barmar]

blackshoe, on 2016-September-05, 08:05, said:

It was not my intent to cause embarrassment, but rather to confirm whether "74A4" was a typo for 74A2 or for something else.

74A2 doesn't require intent. It doesn't even require that the other player actually be embarassed, it just says "that might cause annoyance or embarassment".

Seems like SB violates this all the time.

[blackshoe]

barmar, on 2016-September-05, 15:25, said:

74A2 doesn't require intent. It doesn't even require that the other player actually be embarassed, it just says "that might cause annoyance or embarassment".

Seems like SB violates this all the time.

Indeed he does.

[mycroft]

• Ensure that the "gross deviation" was deliberate. People miscount aces all the time, especially in "Simple System" nights.
  
• Query why this was taken. Be listening for explanations that sound like "we want to play our system, but we know it's not legal tonight".
  
• Conversely, be listening for explanations like "This is the normal bid in our normal system; I forgot we were playing SS".
  
• If it's an experienced player, especially against a weaker pair, suggest this is legal, but do they really want to win this event that way? If the answer is "yes", suggest that they find another game.
  
• It might be a mentor game, in which case they're trying to teach their partner about this option. "Okay, you've got your lesson in hand, we'll leave it there, yes?" and take the opportunity to educate the opponents.

Basically, we need to know what happened and why, and try to smooth the waters. We also need to know why this game is SS. The answer could end up being "what you're doing is legal, but if you continue to try to shark the novices in these ways, we'll stop selling you entries to this game."