[jillybean]

If you play a controls response to a 2♣ opening, what are your continuations after you have found a fit?
Any Keycard ask seems to be superfluous, and we should perhaps be cueing specfic Queens.

[1eyedjack]

I don't play controls response to 2C, but I would suggest that shape of hand is still important even after a fit is found.

[wank]

just don't do it.

[nullve]

wank, on 2016-August-24, 02:44, said:

just don't do it.

Agree!

Control showing responses may prevent you from finding basic fits, like a 4-4 heart fit after

2♣-2♠(an ace and a king); 3♠.

The only thing that makes control showing responses to 2♣ playable, IMO, is that the 2♣ opening is (or should be) so rare that it almost doesn't matter what you play over it.

[The_Badger]

hi jillybean,

Interesting question. As far as I know Jimmy Cayne's team (JEC on BBO) still play control responses to a 2♣ opener, so watching them or searching out some slams among the hand records - probably far quicker - may provide you some answers.

Control responses can sometimes wrongside a contract (but so can positive responses too) - swings and roundabouts on that one...

And as nullve says: The only thing that makes control showing responses playable, IMO, is that the 2♣ opening is (or should be) so rare that it almost doesn't matter what you play over it.

But obviously having agreements with your partner how you proceed after a control response is, shall we say, kind of important, to say the least

[fromageGB]

Keycard asking is not superfluous after showing controls.
I don't actually show controls in response to 2♣, keeping a normal 2♦ positive of an ace or king and a 2♥ negative, but after a positive I show support for opener's suit by bidding the number of "ace/kings". This is controls but perhaps expressed in a different way.

This enables opener to later ask for aces, and hearing the reply he knows exactly how many kings responder has. This allows opener to decide to discover which kings, if looking for grand, or know without asking that it is pointless, so can stop in 5. If you shows controls it is still worthwhile to retain ace asking.

[blackshoe]

In Romex, responses to 2♣ through 3♣ show controls. Higher responses show very specific hand types. In general, after a control showing response, opener bids naturally. 4NT is never any kind of BW. Opener can use asking bids to investigate slam. Note that certain GF bids (in particular those with a primary ♦ suit) do not open 2♣, and unbalanced hands with 4 or 5 losers open 1NT (artificial).

[Phil]

If you play controls, you need to switch three level bids after a 2H/2S/2N response so like 3C is hearts/3D is spades. This gives you a waiting bid and a cheap way to raise.

You also might create,the rule that 2S and higher create a force through 4N.

Not worth the headaches IMO.

[jillybean]

Phil, on 2016-August-24, 14:56, said:

If you play controls, you need to switch three level bids after a 2H/2S/2N response so like 3C is hearts/3D is spades. This gives you a waiting bid and a cheap way to raise.

You also might create,the rule that 2S and higher create a force through 4N.

Not worth the headaches IMO.

Hi Phil. I'm just back from Lynnwood and a couple of disasters playing "controls". We are back to the good, old, 2♦ waiting.

I had a chat with Jeff there, I think you may have been playing together (or I'm horribly mistaken) . I didn't get chance to say hi, perhaps next time.

[Phil]

jillybean, on 2016-August-29, 18:01, said:

Hi Phil. I'm just back from Lynnwood and a couple of disasters playing "controls". We are back to the good, old, 2♦ waiting.

I had a chat with Jeff there, I think you may have been playing together (or I'm horribly mistaken) . I didn't get chance to say hi, perhaps next time.

Nope, Jeff is a friend but we weren't playing.

[jogs]

jillybean, on 2016-August-23, 20:14, said:

If you play a controls response to a 2♣ opening, what are your continuations after you have found a fit?
Any Keycard ask seems to be superfluous, and we should perhaps be cueing specfic Queens.

Isn't there more than one school on control responses?
Could you clarify your style?
2♣ - 2♦: ?? How many controls?
2♣ - 2♥: 1 more control???
What does each response show?
2♣ - 2NT: ???

[jillybean]

The control responses we were experimenting with are: King 1, Ace 2

2♣:

2♦ 0 or 1 King
2♥ (2) 2 King or 1 Ace
2♠ (3) 1 Ace + 1 King
2N 3 Kings
3♣ (4) A/A, A/K/K, K/K/K/K
3♦ (5)

[jogs]

What does opener need to show a suit?
2♣ - 2♥
2♠

What does 2♠ show?

5 spades with 2 of the top 3?? or something else?
Must opener bid 3♥ with hearts?
2NT is 22-24 HCP???

[SteveMoe]

Often wondered why not play control showing once the 2♣ opener has had a chance to show a suited hand? Less important with NT shapes. So after 2♣ - 2♦ - 2♠, start the 0-1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc ladder.