[661_Pete]

OK, what's best here please?

---

I don't want to say how bidding actually progressed - it's too embarrassing! Let's just say - this is one occasion when I screwed up, big-time. I hope there aren't too many more of those!

[ahydra]

3H is generally played as GF showing a 6-card suit in this position, which sounds like what you've got. If partner supports you could try for slam. If not just pass 3NT.

ahydra

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

if you are sure, that partner wont pass 3H, this is your best bid,
the alternative is either 4D or 4S (splinter), in both cases you
bury the heart suit, but at least you give yourself a chance in
finding 6D.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[broze]

There is no reasonable alternative to 3♥ now. And I wouldn't call the hand a misfit when you have a known diamond fit!

If p supports hearts you are worth another move. If he bids 3N then he likely has a singleton. Therefore you have a lot wasted so I would respect that and pass.

[StevenG]

ahydra, on 2016-July-04, 03:12, said:

3H is generally played as GF showing a 6-card suit in this position

Pete plays Acol, so I would expect his partner to play 3♦ as non-forcing.

[wank]

StevenG, on 2016-July-04, 06:38, said:

Pete plays Acol, so I would expect his partner to play 3♦ as non-forcing.

indeed so, as does everyone else.

however, once you don't pass 3D you're in a game force, irrespective of whether you're playing 2/1, acol, or snap.

yes, acol's not the best system but it's still possible to play acol in a more or less absurd manner.



anyway, back to the question, over 3H if partner bids 3NT, you should bid 4d.

[661_Pete]

StevenG, on 2016-July-04, 06:38, said:

Pete plays Acol, so I would expect his partner to play 3♦ as non-forcing.

Sorry, yes, I should have said it is Acol.

[kenberg]

661_Pete, on 2016-July-04, 08:00, said:

Sorry, yes, I should have said it is Acol.

Sure, but I think the 3D is non-forcing if you are playing on Mars, so it's ok. Edit: I see from below that I should have said unless they play KS on Mars.

And I just sent a message off to a partner to make sure that he would then play the 3H as forcing.
We had an auction the other day that went
1H 1S
3H ?

I wanted to bid 3S forcing but I wasn't sure if he would treat it as such. So I raised to 4H on my stiff, off 1. Had I been confident that 3S would be forcing, we could have played in 4S off 1, or 3NT off 1. He had six hearts and one spade to complement my six spades and one heart. Some double dummy lines might even have brought the contracts in, any of them.

Anyway, a forcing 3H on your hand seems right. I don't play acol, but forcing seems like the right agreement for 3H and then bidding it seems right.

[StevenG]

wank, on 2016-July-04, 06:58, said:

indeed so, as does everyone else.

Sorry - misread ahydra's post.

[Zelandakh]

wank, on 2016-July-04, 06:58, said:

indeed so, as does everyone else.

Not everyone...

[Stephen Tu]

K-S plays the minor jump rebid as a rock crusher GF hand. The non-forcing invitational hands are put through fragment reverses and forcing 2♣ rebid. Only somewhat well known system I know of that arranges rebids this way.

[mike777]

3h seems normal now.


If pard rebids 3nt...our next call will be more difficult

Axx...x....AKQJxx...Kxx

even less has chances for 6d

[masse24]

3♥ -- which should be a GF.
Except for a few outliers (my favorite is below) I would expect my partners to play it as a GF.

PhilG007, on 2013-September-20, 07:37, said:

The question was after 1♥1♠3♥3♠ What does it show?
Answer- it shows a big misfit and an argument developing. The bidding has all the
classic signs of a tug o war. Someone has to give way...and the sooner this happens,the better.

[GrahamJson]

Having played Acol for many years I can confirm that 3H in this sequence is forcing, so is the obvious bid.

On a related matter, I used to play a jump rebid of three of a minor as forcing. This was combined with strong openings of 3C and 3D, similar to the 3C opening in Blue Club, whilst an opening 2NT showed a minor suit pre-empt. Obviously this was not standard Acol, but it worked well. (Other two level openings were multi and Tartan Twos, which led to various adventures.)

[msjennifer]

We all know that 3D is a passable bid.If it is so then I can not understand how 3H a rebid in the same suit can be taken as game forcing.What is responder supposed to bid on xxx ,AQJ9876,void,xxx? In this particular hand if a game force is to be made then it should be in a new suit.Actually I don't mind bidding 4C .If partner has xx or xxx in hearts he will bid 4H.I don't mind playing in 5D with a singleton in spades and xx in D.I am certainly going to bid a game on this holding even at the cost of bypassing 3 NT.

[GrahamJson]

msjennifer, on 2016-July-05, 01:59, said:

We all know that 3D is a passable bid.If it is so then I can not understand how 3H a rebid in the same suit can be taken as game forcing.What is responder supposed to bid on xxx ,AQJ9876,void,xxx? In this particular hand if a game force is to be made then it should be in a new suit.Actually I don't mind bidding 4C .If partner has xx or xxx in hearts he will bid 4H.I don't mind playing in 5D with a singleton in spades and xx in D.I am certainly going to bid a game on this holding even at the cost of bypassing 3 NT.

No system can cope with every situation. In this case the argument is that with a weak hand and a misfit you pass 3D. Once you bid on it should be game forcing. This is a much more useful, and frequent, use of a 3H bid rather than trying to land on a pinhead in 3H. Sure, occasionally it might be nice to be able to end the auction in 3H, as in the example given, but that will be pretty rare.

[Caitlynne]

It is a fundamental principle of standard bidding that, once opener jumps to show substantial honor strength and a semi-solid or stronger suit, the partnership can no longer debate about which strain to play in at a part-score contract. Thus, 3H is forcing and, with a reasonably good 6 card suit, it is the clear bid. If partner cannot support hearts, diamonds will surely be a suitable trump suit.

If partner can raise hearts, a cue bid of 5C is pretty clear. If partner must show a card (e.g., 3S potentially in exploration of NT or an advance cue bid agreeing hearts), you can cooperate with 3NT. If partner bids again, you have enough to drive to slam.

If partner retreats to 4D, I would try 5C - a cue bid in support of diamonds since there are no new suits at the 5 level.

[nekthen]

msjennifer, on 2016-July-05, 01:59, said:

We all know that 3D is a passable bid.If it is so then I can not understand how 3H a rebid in the same suit can be taken as game forcing.What is responder supposed to bid on xxx ,AQJ9876,void,xxx? In this particular hand if a game force is to be made then it should be in a new suit.Actually I don't mind bidding 4C .If partner has xx or xxx in hearts he will bid 4H.I don't mind playing in 5D with a singleton in spades and xx in D.I am certainly going to bid a game on this holding even at the cost of bypassing 3 NT.

Bid 3♥ over 1♦

[Cyberyeti]

nekthen, on 2016-July-05, 09:44, said:

Bid 3♥ over 1♦

Splinter

[rmnka447]

3 ♥ which forces to game or at least 4 ♦ in a pinch, no reason partner can't have a doubleton ♥ or bid 3 ♠ looking for 3 NT if you have a ♣ stop.