[johnu]

Phil, on 2016-June-01, 12:20, said:

I would open the North hand 1N.

Mediocre red suits, honors in the doubletons, the right point count for a 1NT opening. I would expect most experienced 2/1 players to open 1NT. On the other hand, you wouldn't have this interesting thread if you opened 1NT.

The complementary auction (change a small spade in South to a small club)

1♥ 1NT
2♦ ???

leads to a similar problem for South. On this auction, you are more likely to get a spade lead while if you open 1NT, the auction would be

1NT 3NT

[Phil]

johnu, on 2016-June-02, 13:28, said:

On the other hand, you wouldn't have this interesting thread if you opened 1NT.

I prefer to leave the interesting bridge problems for my opponents

[billw55]

I like the idea of 1NT on the north cards.

Today I was dealt a hand similar to the north hand above. This time it was

---

Also IMPs, both vul. Do you open a 15-17 1NT in first seat? Or is the ♦xx a deterrent?

[kenrexford]

billw55, on 2016-June-02, 14:43, said:

I like the idea of 1NT on the north cards.

Today I was dealt a hand similar to the north hand above. This time it was

---

Also IMPs, both vul. Do you open a 15-17 1NT in first seat? Or is the ♦xx a deterrent?

With 2542, you can predict 1H-1S-2D and a problem.

With 2524, 1H-1S-2C does give partner the option of 2D, but that is not a good dolution. 2D does not say, "I have 10 HCP."

So, same problem.

The 1NT solution works when you are semi balanced, but the real problem is that a jump shift is GF, meaning that a new suit rebid is 10 to about 17 or so when unbalanced. That's a huge range. Imagine the insanity of opening 2D showing 10 to 17 or so and 5H/4D or more. The range would be absurd, and yet that is what natural has.

Intermediate 2-level openings would alleviate this. E.g., 2D heart diamond, 2H heart club, and 2S spade diamond, all 10 to 13, maybe, such that a rebid is sound (14 to 17?). No one wants to give up weak twos, but this is a hidden cost to weak twos, wild ass ranges for new suit rebids.

If standard and 2/1 bidders would just use the pattern problem solution from strong club systems to solve the range problems, natural bidding would, imo, be better and easier.

[mike777]

billw55, on 2016-June-02, 14:43, said:

I like the idea of 1NT on the north cards.

Today I was dealt a hand similar to the north hand above. This time it was

---

Also IMPs, both vul. Do you open a 15-17 1NT in first seat? Or is the ♦xx a deterrent?

basically yes, 1nt or 1h then 1nt
I can live with either esp if we are permitted to not open bal 12 counts. in first and second seat.

however switch your h and spades and I would open 1s and rebid 2c over 1nt as tht would allow conventions now by responder

[vitorlopes]

Clear 2♥. If partner has a non-minimum hand (15+) will continue bidding.

[kenrexford]

Good reason to not courtesy correct with garbage, eh?

As an aside, there might be good reason to consider a forcing 1NT by Opener after 1H-1S. This could be in a curious structure.

Suppose Opener always rebids 2C with 5332 types, weak. 2D by Opener could show, perhaps, a light red two suiter, 2H a light club two suiter.

1N, then, would show, typically, greater length in hearts or a tweener strength hand. If Responder does the usual 2C relay, Opener's calls could be fairly simple, but sexy could be added. Maybe a 2D rebid after 2C shows a sixth heart , 2H a club suit, 2S reds. Just thinking out loud, but it seems like a forcing 1N by Opener could be nice.

[Phil]

kenrexford, on 2016-June-04, 12:06, said:

As an aside, there might be good reason to consider a forcing 1NT by Opener after 1H-1S. This could be in a curious structure.

I play this in one partnership since 1M is never 5332. We play it as Gaz which gives us one other weak hand type.

[mike777]

kenrexford, on 2016-June-04, 12:06, said:

Good reason to not courtesy correct with garbage, eh?

As an aside, there might be good reason to consider a forcing 1NT by Opener after 1H-1S. This could be in a curious structure.

Suppose Opener always rebids 2C with 5332 types, weak. 2D by Opener could show, perhaps, a light red two suiter, 2H a light club two suiter.

1N, then, would show, typically, greater length in hearts or a tweener strength hand. If Responder does the usual 2C relay, Opener's calls could be fairly simple, but sexy could be added. Maybe a 2D rebid after 2C shows a sixth heart , 2H a club suit, 2S reds. Just thinking out loud, but it seems like a forcing 1N by Opener could be nice.

There is another alternative, given a rather old fashion style....play a rebid of 2 of a minor as showing extras and promising a rebid unless responder passes, rebids 2s or bids game. This puts the problem hand back on opener when they have a minimum hand type after 1h=1s

The options are:
1) pass the hand in the first place
2) rebid 2s
3) rebid 2h
4)rebid 1nt


as always you need to have your rebid prepared with these hand types before you open