[Kungsgeten]

I've been working on a way to present bridge system notes on a computer, trying to take advantage of the interactive aspects compared to a static document. Here's an example of how it looks so far:

http://snortingmarad...kebeach_nt.html

Here I also present a NT structure which I think has some novel features(?), so please comment

If you do not want to look at the whole bidding tree at the same time, you can "zoom in" on a specific sequence by clicking the bid.

[blackshoe]

Interesting. I think maybe I like it.

[Zelandakh]

Looks good except for a couple of typos. One hand type that might be problematic is 4-4 majors with slam interest but that is easy to solve. I suppose the plan is o use CONFIT with that but it seems to be a fair way behind Stayman-based methods. A more serious omission is not having a way of showing a long suit at the 3 level and starting a cue auction. I know this is popular these days but I think it is a mistake. It is also another easy fix within this structure. You are also missing an invite with a long, broken minor. Since this is also the hand type I cut from my structure, you can probably guess that I do not find this a serious issue.

[B Psyches]

Yeah, I love this style of system formatting. Pity I have never worked out how to do it.

[WesleyC]

Really nice visuals and an interesting system!.

I've tried using (significantly less pretty) tree structure for system notes but in the end I always given up because it takes so long to setup.

[mgoetze]

Very nice presentation, are you planning to make your compiler available? Can we get a glimpse of the source format?

[Kungsgeten]

Zelandakh, on 2016-April-07, 17:29, said:

Looks good except for a couple of typos. One hand type that might be problematic is 4-4 majors with slam interest but that is easy to solve. I suppose the plan is o use CONFIT with that but it seems to be a fair way behind Stayman-based methods. A more serious omission is not having a way of showing a long suit at the 3 level and starting a cue auction. I know this is popular these days but I think it is a mistake. It is also another easy fix within this structure. You are also missing an invite with a long, broken minor. Since this is also the hand type I cut from my structure, you can probably guess that I do not find this a serious issue.

Yes I guess the structure is very focused on showing shape, rather than establishing a fit and then cue bid. Perhaps that's a problem, I'm not sure. There are many invitational hands which aren't included. The ones that are included:

- Balanced INV
- INV with a four card major
- INV with 4-4 majors
- INV with 5 card major
- INV with 6 card major
- INV with 5-5 majors

One type that I would like to include is INV with 5-4 majors, but right now you have to treat these as 4-4 or just show the five card suit. Perhaps there is too much attention to GF auctions. When aiming at the right part score there is a gain in being able to play 2D. We do not, however, have a bid available for weak with both majors (not a big loss in my opinion), nor weak with both minors.

mgoetze said:

Very nice presentation, are you planning to make your compiler available? Can we get a glimpse of the source format?

Thanks! I have been thinking about making it available, but I think it would be awkward for someone who isn't familiar with the Emacs text editor and org-mode. Here's a snippet of source:

* Lakebeach NT

The Lakebeach NT structure is inspired by [[http://www.jackbridge.com/pdf/eheeman.pdf][Heeman]], Notrump bidding the Scanian Way, and Meckwell's NT structure. The structure has very few asking bids, preferring to show responder's shape instead. The keystones are 2NT as Puppet Stayman, 2!d!h as transfers (with second round transfer follow-ups) and 2!c as a puppet to 2!d.

| 1NT | ? |

- 2!c :: Puppet to 2!d.

     The puppet to 2!d is the strangest bid in the Lakebeach NT structure. Responder may have:

  - A hand wanting to sign off in 2!h or 2!s.
  - A GF unbalanced hand with 4M.
  - 4-4 majors with at least INV values.
  - A four card major and INV values.

  The main purpose of the bid is to invite of force game with exactly four cards in one, or both, of the majors. A somewhat balanced hand game forcing hand with a four card major /does not/ respond 2!c though, but instead responds 2NT.

  - 2!d :: Forced.
    - Pass :: Weak with diamonds.
    - 2!h :: Weak with !s or INV+ with 4!s.
      - 2!s :: Normal bid.

           The continuation after this bid is symmetric with 1NT--2!c; 2!d--2NT+, but with 4!s instead of 4!h.

      - Higher :: Super-accept with good max and 4!s.
    - 2!s :: INV+ 4-4 majors.
      - 2NT :: Minimum, no major.
        - Pass :: INV 4-4 majors.
        - 3!c!d :: Singleton, 4441, GF.
        - 3!h :: 4-4-5-0, GF.
        - 3!s :: 4-4-0-5, GF.
        - 3NT :: To play.
      - 3!c :: Max or 4M.
        - 3!d :: 4-4 INV.
        - 3!h :: Short clubs, GF.
        - 3!s :: Short diamonds, GF.
        - 3NT :: 4-4 COG.
    - 2NT :: INV 4!h.
    - 3!c :: GF 5+!c and 4!h.
      - 3!d :: Relay.

           The continuation after the relay is symmetric with 1NT--2!c; 2!d--3!h+.

    - 3!d :: GF three-suiter, short spades.
      - 3!h :: Relay
        - 3!s :: 1-4-4-4.
        - 3NT :: COG.
        - 4!c!d :: Natural 5440.
      - 3NT :: Suggestion to play.
    - 3!h :: GF 5+!d, 4!h and short clubs.
    - 3!s :: GF 5+!d, 4!h and short spades.
    - 3NT :: NF SI 5+!d, 4!h.
    - Higher :: SI 5+!d, 4!h.
- 2!d :: Transfer. 5+!h.
  - 2!h :: Normal bid.
    - Pass :: Weak with hearts.
    - 2!s :: INV with 5!h or INV+ 5-5 majors.
      - 2NT :: Minimum, not 3!h.
        - Pass :: INV 5!h.
        - 3!c!d :: Short minor, 5-5 majors. SI.
        - 3!h :: 5-5 majors, INV.
        - 4!c!d :: Void and 5-5 majors.
        - 4!h :: 5-5 majors, COG.
      - 3!c :: 3!h or max.
        - 3!d :: 5!h, INV.
        - 3!h :: 5-5 majors, INV.
        - 3!s :: 5-5 majors, short clubs. SI.
        - 3NT :: 5-5 majors, short diamonds. SI.
        - 4!c!d :: Void and 5-5 majors.
        - 4!h :: 5-5 majors, COG.
    - 2NT :: Transfer. 4+!c, GF.
      - 3!c :: Relay.
        - 3!d :: Short diamonds.
        - 3!h :: Short spades.
        - 3!s :: 0-5-4-4.
        - 3NT :: NF SI.
      - 3!d :: Good club fit.
      - 3!h :: Good heart fit.
      - 3!s :: Double fit.
    - 3!c :: Transfer. 4+!d, GF.
      - 3!d :: Relay.
        - 3!h :: Short clubs.
        - 3!s :: Short spades.
        - 3NT :: NF SI.
      - 3!h :: Good heart fit.
      - 3!s :: Good club fit.
      - 3NT :: Double fit.
    - 3!d :: Transfer. 6+!h, INV or SI.
      - 3!h :: No INV accept.
        - 3!s :: Shortness, SI.
        - 3NT :: SI, no shortness.
        - 4!c!d :: Shortness, SI.
      - 3!s :: INV accept.
        - 3NT :: SI, no shortness or spade shortness.
        - 4!c!d :: Shortness, SI.
        - 4!h :: To play.
    - 3!h :: Transfer. 4!s, GF.
      - 3!s :: Spade fit.
      - 3NT :: No fit.
        - 4!c!d :: 6-4, short minor.
        - 4!h :: 6-4, to play.
        - 4!s :: 6KCB.
        - 4NT :: Quantitative.
      - 4!c :: Heart fit.
    - 3!s :: Unbal COG, 5!h.
    - 3NT :: Bal COG, 5!h.
    - 4!c!d :: Void, 6+!h.
  - Higher :: Super-accept.

[SteelWheel]

This looks a lot like the "button bid" and "launching pad" concept first advanced by the Granovetters in their book "Bridge Additions 96".

For serious partnerships, having a method like this to build system notes is an excellent idea.

[nullve]

Kungsgeten, on 2016-April-07, 15:19, said:

I've been working on a way to present bridge system notes on a computer, trying to take advantage of the interactive aspects compared to a static document. Here's an example of how it looks so far:

http://snortingmarad...kebeach_nt.html

Looks great!

Quote

Here I also present a NT structure which I think has some novel features(?), so please comment

I believe that if a 3-point or narrower 1N range is combined with good hand evaluation, then a pass-or-bash style is adequate and I'd get rid of:

1N-2♣; 2♦-2♥; 2♠-2N = 4S3-H, INV
1N-2♣; 2♦-2♠; 2N-P = 4S4H, was INV
1N-2♣; 2♦-2♠; 3♣-3♦ = 4S4H, INV
1N-2♣; 2♦-2♥; 2N = 3-S4H, INV
1N-2♦; 2♥-2♠; 2N-P = 5 H, was INV
1N-2♦; 2♥-2♠; 3♣-3♦ = 5 H, INV
1N-2♠; 2N-P = 3-S3-H, was INV
1N-2♠; 3♣-3N = 3-S3-H, was INV

Apart from that, and the fact that I'd miss Crawling Stayman badly, I think the structure looks very good.

[raoz]

I am also quite interested in the compiler; syntax seems intuitive enough. I am, however, in the vim camp myself.

I also feel that the expand should be faster; a possible missing feature is "expand entire subtree". I might have to write one myself after all...

[ManUtdNZ]

Kungsgeten, on 2016-April-07, 15:19, said:

I've been working on a way to present bridge system notes on a computer, trying to take advantage of the interactive aspects compared to a static document. Here's an example of how it looks so far:

http://snortingmarad...kebeach_nt.html

Here I also present a NT structure which I think has some novel features(?), so please comment

If you do not want to look at the whole bidding tree at the same time, you can "zoom in" on a specific sequence by clicking the bid.

Hi
I've come across this idea whilst browsing for a way to present my system notes. Have you done any more on this concept?
Cheers
Brian

[Kungsgeten]

ManUtdNZ, on 2021-January-31, 22:08, said:

Hi
I've come across this idea whilst browsing for a way to present my system notes. Have you done any more on this concept?
Cheers
Brian

Yes, I've written many system ideas and have also done most of my main partnership's methods like this. However I haven't published the tools online, since I think they're too dependant on the Emacs software for it to be relevant for most people. However if you're familiar with Emacs I'd be happy to share.

Here's some examples:

My main partnership (Swedish notes): http://snortingmarad.../grandiosa.html
Transfer responses to 2♣ showing 18-19 NT or any GF: http://www.snortingm...clubs18_19.html
Some ideas for a system with three card majors: http://www.snortingm...best_major.html

[nullve]

Grandiosa is by far the most sold pizza in Norway.

[Kungsgeten]

nullve, on 2021-February-07, 08:08, said:

Grandiosa is by far the most sold pizza in Norway.

Yeah, it is sold here in Sweden too. When we've faced Norwegians at the Swedish bridge festival they seem very ammused Grandiosa had a commercial of a pizza with "X-tra allt" (extra everything) and since our system is pretty detailed (at least compared to what people around here play) we thought that it was fitting We also used to have some pizza references in the conventions, but I think most of theme have been removed or changed:

- Mexicana (opening 2♦ to show 18-19 NT, AKA Mexican).
- Quattro stagioni (an opening of 2NT showing 5-5 in a major and a minor, so four variants).
- Pizza raises (using 3NT as a flat non-forcing raise).
- Calzone (using 2NT as a semi-natural GF response to 1M, with some special follow-ups in case opener had an interesting hand).

[Zelandakh]

Is this also one of yours perchance?

[Kungsgeten]

Zelandakh, on 2021-February-10, 14:42, said:

Is this also one of yours perchance?

Yes I've written it, but I haven't uploaded it to that site. It is a variation of the 2♣ continuations you've posted on the forums, which is also credited at the top of the document: "The module is mostly stolen from Zelandakh at the BBO forums".
Here's another similar version (didn't include it above since the notes are in Swedish) where the 2♦ response is three-way: INV with 4-5 hearts, weak with 6+ hearts, or a GF relay. http://snortingmarad...transfer2c.html

[nullve]

Continuing the digression, aren't invitational responding hands with (53)41 shape a problem in your Transferrelä (= Transfer Relay) structure?

[Zelandakh]

Kungsgeten, on 2021-February-11, 01:40, said:

Yes I've written it, but I haven't uploaded it to that site. It is a variation of the 2♣ continuations you've posted on the forums, which is also credited at the top of the document: "The module is mostly stolen from Zelandakh at the BBO forums".
Here's another similar version (didn't include it above since the notes are in Swedish) where the 2♦ response is three-way: INV with 4-5 hearts, weak with 6+ hearts, or a GF relay. http://snortingmarad...transfer2c.html

Yeah I realised that - it was how I found it as it came up in a search when I was looking for one of my old posts. No complaint, was just a surprise to find my name showing up in Swedish! Since you are more or less the only Swede I know, I figured you must have written it up somewhere along the line. It is actually a bit cool that some others are playing around with some of my ideas and advancing them.

[Zelandakh]

nullve, on 2021-February-11, 02:39, said:

Continuing the digression, aren't invitational responding hands with (53)41 shape a problem in your Transferrelä (= Transfer Relay) structure?

They are a problem if you want to be able to play in diamonds. These hands are treated similarly to a 1NT opening - look for a 5-3 major fit; if it does not exist then min-max for 2NT versus 3NT. If you try to get into 3♦ opposite a minimum xx46 on hands without the values for 3NT then you tend to get into trouble so this is avoided.

[Kungsgeten]

nullve, on 2021-February-11, 02:39, said:

Continuing the digression, aren't invitational responding hands with (53)41 shape a problem in your Transferrelä (= Transfer Relay) structure?

Yes, they're a problem since 2NT after a transfer isn't natural INV but shows both majors. Not quite sure how to solve that. In the original version 2C-2D; 2H-2S is natural, which solves a lot of issues

Edit:

Maybe something like this:

2C--
2D = 4+H or GF relay.
2H = 4+S.
2S = Range ask / Club raise (maybe some other INV hands or GF variants that doesn't want to use relays)
2N = 4+H and 4S, INV.
3C = 5S and 4H, INV.

Sometimes we'll be playing 3H on a 4-3 fit though.