[Bbradley62]

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What would 2N have shown instead of 2♠?

[Stephen Tu]

It ought to show 9 HCP, 3- sp, 3- hearts. Since 1nt-2nt is artificial, it has to go through stayman to invite. 2♠ on this sequence should show 4 cd spades, 3-H.

[Bbradley62]

Stephen Tu, on 2015-December-26, 12:33, said:

It ought to show 9 HCP, 3- sp, 3- hearts. Since 1nt-2nt is artificial, it has to go through stayman to invite. 2♠ on this sequence should show 4 cd spades, 3-H.

That's what I thought, but I wanted to be sure I wasn't missing something. The description of 2♠ should include that ♥/♠ info.

[lycier]

Stephen Tu, on 2015-December-26, 12:33, said:

It ought to show 9 HCP, 3- sp, 3- hearts. Since 1nt-2nt is artificial, it has to go through stayman to invite. 2♠ on this sequence should show 4 cd spades, 3-H.

I would think it seems your explanation is inappropriate.
1NT - 2♣ - 2♦ - 2nt=8-9hcp invitation,doesn't deny 1 or 2 4-card major.
1NT - 2♣ - 2♥ -2♠= 8-9hcp invitation with 4-card ♠ in the balanced hand. Here it has nothing to do with 3- ♥ what you said .
1NT - 2♣ - 2♥ - 2NT= 8-9 balance invitation,it has nothing to do with major count.

[lycier]

Bbradley62, on 2015-December-26, 16:00, said:

That's what I thought, but I wanted to be sure I wasn't missing something. The description of 2♠ should include that ♥/♠ info.

As a normal basic 2/1system, the description of ♠ as a basic natural bid have included 4-card ♠ with balance invitation,never include ♥ count ( of course,2-card+♥ at least.),otherwise 2♠ should a artificial bid.

[Stephen Tu]

lycier, on 2015-December-26, 18:15, said:

I would think it seems your explanation is inappropriate.
1NT - 2♣ - 2♦ - 2nt=8-9hcp invitation,doesn't deny 1 or 2 4-card major.

Agree.

Quote

1NT - 2♣ - 2♥ -2♠= 8-9hcp invitation with 4-card ♠ in the balanced hand. Here it has nothing to do with 3- ♥ what you said .

2♠ is supposed to deny 4 hearts, as with 4 hearts, one simply raises to 3♥. So 3- H should be something in the code as known for the robots.

Quote

1NT - 2♣ - 2♥ - 2NT= 8-9 balance invitation,it has nothing to do with major count.

Sure it does. You deny 4 hearts since you didn't raise hearts. You deny 4 spades because you didn't bid 2♠. If you don't deny majors, then opener with a minimum and 4cd spades is in a bit of a quandary of what to do. If he passes, you have might have missed a better partial in spades. If he bids, he may find you without spades and in 3nt somewhat overbid.

This is how it is normally done when 1nt-2nt is artificial. If 1nt-2nt were natural, and 1nt-2c-2h-2nt guaranteed 4 spades, then opener with a min and spades can bid 3♠, and can bid 4♠ with a max and 4♠. But if 2♣ doesn't guarantee a major, then 2nt over 2♥ better deny one.

[1eyedjack]

It is not unplayable for 1N-2C-2H-2S to be non-committal as to Heart length, preparing to support Hearts next round when holding 4. If opener passes 2S then he has a minimum with 4 Spades, would have passed a 3H raise, and you end up a level lower which will gain on occasion when 8 tricks (or fewer) are the limit.

It could lose if opener is allowed to pass with 3 card Spade suit, or if knowledge of responder's Spade suit (in a Heart contract) aids with the opening lead.

But it could also gain in finding a thin Heart game if opener "signs off" in 2N, hears 3H from partner, and opener re-evaluates.

On balance I doubt that there is much in it. My guess is that an immediate raise of Hearts is both standard and the way that GIB behaves (and hence 2S denies a 4th Heart), but of all of the theoretical factors I think that the prospect of playing in 2S instead of 3H is the most powerful and tips it in my view in favour of the non-standard treatment.