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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#8181 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2017-November-27, 06:38

 Zelandakh, on 2017-November-27, 06:15, said:

Ed is a believer in smaller government. Therefore all of his aims tend to lean in this direction. So goals that do not appear on his list are for example fairness, equality and fiscal stability, which would probably be on most people's lists.



Don't forget growth, not poisoning people ....
Alderaan delenda est
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#8182 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2017-November-27, 07:20

 hrothgar, on 2017-November-27, 06:38, said:

Don't forget growth, not poisoning people ....

Well I am not sure I would regard not poisoning people (nor national security, law and order, education or health) as part of economic policy in the first instance although obviously there is a large degree of overlap as these things also cost money. Growth is sort of covered by Ed's points as the increased income it brings are directly beneficial to #1 and #2.
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#8183 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2017-November-27, 07:52

It seems to me there are fairly simple steps we can take to improve the government’s fiscal outlook. These include:

1. Let Medicare negotiate prescription drug prices like other countries do.
2. Raise the minimum wage so that people who work full time don’t need to receive government benefits.
3. End military programs that the pentagon thinks are unnecessary. In the short term, use the savings to provide incentives for companies to relocate to districts where facilities have closed and/or job training for any displaced workers.
4. Increase funding to the IRS. This more than makes up for itself in increased revenue from catching tax dodgers.
5. Spend money on infrastructure. This will more than pay for itself by improving the business environment, mitigating damage from natural disasters, and improving the short-term jobs situation.
6. Get rid of some loopholes. Ones that stand out (to me) include carried interest, subsidies for “dirty” energy production, basis reset for inheritance that allows large fortunes to completely avoid capital gains tax, and the gap between capital gains rate and regualar tax rate. There are surely more on the corporate side that I’m less familiar with, but we have an environment where many profitable companies are paying zero. This also probably impacts economic fairness as bigger companies may be able to pay a lower rate than smaller startups.
7. Change the way debt is handled in the tax code. The current system allows a lot of abuses (wealthy people borrowing against their fortunes to avoid capital gains tax, some of the shenanigans hedge funds use to load profitable companies with debt to extract value, etc). This can probably raise revenue while also making the tax code fairer.
8. Fix the immigration system, allowing companies to keep high skill workers in the country when really needed (H1B) while preventing abuses. Also allowing “undocumented” people a path to citizenship and making sure they receive a fair wage and pay taxes. And allowing foreign graduates of US universities more freedom to stay and start their own businesses. Immigrants are generally good for the economy as long as they are working people (most are)! Obviously we need some immigration law, but it should be based around keeping criminals out, making sure most entrants have jobs lined up (some exceptions for refugees and/or close family members of long time residents is appropriate for humanitarian reasons of course) and that they are not undercutting the job market (taking jobs that citizens are ready/willing to do).

Anyway I’d note that none of these seems to be a Republican priority. There are actually one or two things in the tax bill that I like (getting rid of the “mortgage interest” deduction for second homes is one) but for the most part it seems like a budget-busting giveaway to the very wealthy. They don’t even seem to want a long-term middle class tax cut (which might stimulate the economy).
Adam W. Meyerson
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#8184 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2017-November-27, 15:38

Why should "Reduce National Debt" be a goal?

Perhaps it's worth reminding everyone that no one can make savings unless someone else is willing to borrow. Would you prefer to put your savings into subprime mortgages?
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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#8185 User is offline   PassedOut 

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Posted 2017-November-27, 16:21

 cherdano, on 2017-November-27, 15:38, said:

Why should "Reduce National Debt" be a goal?

Because tax receipts pay for interest on the national debt, reducing the revenue available for current expenses. That's not a huge problem now with interest rates very low, but when interest rates rise the impact is substantial. Given the current US government's manifest financial irresponsibility, that's a real risk.
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The infliction of cruelty with a good conscience is a delight to moralists — that is why they invented hell. — Bertrand Russell
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#8186 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2017-November-27, 18:28

 cherdano, on 2017-November-27, 15:38, said:

Why should "Reduce National Debt" be a goal?

Perhaps it's worth reminding everyone that no one can make savings unless someone else is willing to borrow. Would you prefer to put your savings into subprime mortgages?

Doesn't the fractional reserve system (not to mention the loss of control of gov't finance) ensure that savers are disadvantaged over debtors? We are in a hole and they keep us digging....
The Grand Design, reflected in the face of Chaos...it's a fluke!
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#8187 User is offline   WellSpyder 

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Posted 2017-November-28, 03:46

 cherdano, on 2017-November-27, 15:38, said:

Perhaps it's worth reminding everyone that no one can make savings unless someone else is willing to borrow.

Bank notes in a suitcase under the bed?
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#8188 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2017-November-28, 04:12

 WellSpyder, on 2017-November-28, 03:46, said:

Bank notes in a suitcase under the bed?

That means that the central bank has borrowed money from you.
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#8189 User is offline   WellSpyder 

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Posted 2017-November-28, 06:58

 helene_t, on 2017-November-28, 04:12, said:

That means that the central bank has borrowed money from you.

Not in any meaningful sense, in my view. Suppose they just turn on the printing presses for a bit, and then drop the resulting notes from a helicopter, which I collect and put under the bed. At what point does the borrowing occur?
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#8190 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2017-November-28, 07:05

Those banknotes (legal tender BUT non-redeemable in gold, silver or any other item of actual value) are "created" as debt instruments and it is the interest to be earned from their creation that will "power" the system that creates them. That is why banks always have the biggest and nicest buildings in a city...
The Grand Design, reflected in the face of Chaos...it's a fluke!
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#8191 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-November-28, 09:32

More bad news for Teflon Don:

Quote

Reza Zarrab, a Turkish businessman accused of violating U.S. sanctions on Iran, pleaded guilty and will testify against his co-defendant, a federal court heard Tuesday. Zarrab's cooperation with federal prosecutors could have implications for Michael Flynn, who allegedly plotted on behalf of Turkish interests to help free Zarrab.


Tick-tock, tick-tock....
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#8192 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-November-28, 10:28

The Atlantic explains why a real news source couldn't be compromised by fake news.

Quote

Project Veritas was operating on the premise that The Washington Post wouldn’t exercise due diligence in vetting a young woman accusing a Republican Senate candidate of sexual misconduct—that the paper would report the bogus story in the newspaper, enabling Project Veritas to expose them for spreading a false allegation.

The premise that the newspaper spreads “fake news” is widely held on the populist right. But the premise proved incorrect. Washington Post reporters did not reflexively or opportunistically believe a woman falsely accusing a prominent Republican. They assigned multiple staffers to help vet the story’s credibility. And they were skillful enough at doing so that they discovered their source’s lies.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#8193 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2017-November-28, 12:45

Sad!
OK
bed
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#8194 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2017-November-28, 13:15

 hrothgar, on 2017-November-22, 17:38, said:

So, I guess that the lesson is, when we want to insult knuckle dragging pedophiles who are either muslims or evangelicals, we should not be castigating them because they believe in Islam or because they are evangelicals, but rather because they are conservatives.


This is so patently ridiculous it's laughable. Pure progressive BS. A two word refutation - Kevin Spacey - who's been accused of gay pedophilia. If we want talk about those who sexually abuse or harass others maybe we ought to talk about all the other progressives as well - Harvey Weinstein, Ex-Amazon studio exec Roy Price, Louis C.K., Anthony Weiner, Sen. Al Franken, Rep. John Conyers, perpetrator in chief Bill Clinton and probably many more on the way to being exposed from the cesspool of Hollywood. I have no doubts that they'll be a few conservatives identified as well.

The behavior you want to get on your high horse about isn't just a phenomenon of the right, it's across all of society. But progressives try to claim moral supremacy and pin it all on conservatives. Sorry, that just doesn't wash.

How about the comical dance Sen. Franken is trying to perpetrate saying " I'm really a champion of women and am sorry this harassment behavior occurred." Let's be honest, if Franken was a conservative, progressives would be all over him to resign because his behavior was unacceptable. But progressives are saying exactly what conservatives say when any accusations occur - let him have his due process. That speaks to the double standard the progressives feel entitled to. No matter what your political views, unacceptable behavior is always unacceptable.
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#8195 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2017-November-28, 13:43

wait, what? whom did bill clinton abuse or harass?
OK
bed
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#8196 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2017-November-28, 13:47

oh ok. i found an article. carry on.
OK
bed
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#8197 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-November-28, 15:02

 rmnka447, on 2017-November-28, 13:15, said:

This is so patently ridiculous it's laughable. Pure progressive BS. A two word refutation - Kevin Spacey - who's been accused of gay pedophilia. If we want talk about those who sexually abuse or harass others maybe we ought to talk about all the other progressives as well - Harvey Weinstein, Ex-Amazon studio exec Roy Price, Louis C.K., Anthony Weiner, Sen. Al Franken, Rep. John Conyers, perpetrator in chief Bill Clinton and probably many more on the way to being exposed from the cesspool of Hollywood. I have no doubts that they'll be a few conservatives identified as well.

The behavior you want to get on your high horse about isn't just a phenomenon of the right, it's across all of society. But progressives try to claim moral supremacy and pin it all on conservatives. Sorry, that just doesn't wash.

How about the comical dance Sen. Franken is trying to perpetrate saying " I'm really a champion of women and am sorry this harassment behavior occurred." Let's be honest, if Franken was a conservative, progressives would be all over him to resign because his behavior was unacceptable. But progressives are saying exactly what conservatives say when any accusations occur - let him have his due process. That speaks to the double standard the progressives feel entitled to. No matter what your political views, unacceptable behavior is always unacceptable.


Quite amazing.

I made an initial post from New Testament verses that showed that the Christian Bible considered women subservient to men, and I noted that evangelical Christians accept those words as the word of God. Richard then made a wry post that was quite clever showing that this thinking is fundamental to others besides the religious.


You have taken this off-road into a who-did-who-to-what that is not related to the subject. Were we too subtle for you?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#8198 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2017-November-28, 16:38

 Winstonm, on 2017-November-28, 15:02, said:

You have taken this off-road into a who-did-who-to-what that is not related to the subject. Were we too subtle for you?

You are naive Winston. Have you ever seen an American conservative actually address an issue like this when raised rather than counter-attack on a completely different tack? Why would you expect any difference here? :blink:
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#8199 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2017-November-28, 17:07

 Zelandakh, on 2017-November-28, 16:38, said:

You are naive Winston. Have you ever seen an American conservative actually address an issue like this when raised rather than counter-attack on a completely different tack? Why would you expect any difference here? :blink:


You have a point. Whataboutism is a misdirection ploy, i.e., not only moving goalposts but claiming the game never had any goalposts to begin with.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#8200 User is offline   RedSpawn 

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Posted 2017-November-29, 07:38

 akwoo, on 2016-February-08, 22:02, said:

There seems to be an undercurrent in some parts of the Republican party that the proper role of government is to organize (white, male) Americans into a gang to beat up on everyone else and share the spoils, and the best country is the one most capable of beating up on everyone else. (Note: This is not at all a solely American phenomenon; the European far right, which controls a few Central European countries, believes this to a much larger degree.)

From this point of view, people who are trying to make America into a just nation are in fact trying to change this country for the worse.

Politics is the activities associated with the governance of a country, especially the debate or conflict among individuals and/or parties having or hoping to achieve power.

Now that we have established the foundation for politics, America's current politics has been disguised as a "White male" undercurrent, but what is really going on is:

The global economy doesn't submit to the laws, whims, or ingrained power structure of America's nation-state. America has traditionally been founded as a country (nation-state) whose powerful institutions were controlled by white Anglo-Saxon men for the benefit of white Anglo-Saxon men.

The global economy challenges this dynamic. The global economy cares about monetary greenbacks—not tribal symbolism. Corporate America, also beholden to the mores of the global economy, doesn't care about preserving a white male majority in its employment ranks; instead, it cares about increasing shareholder value.

This "attack" on the will of America's nation-state and the march towards a well-connected global economy causes temporary instability in labor markets, upsets market fundamentals that we thought were guided by an Invisible Hand, and threatens the financial livelihood of several white collar and blue collar white men who are accustomed to the nation-state protecting their interests above others.

The global economy isn't a sympathetic soul, however. It isn't an astute history major either, so it cares not about preserving white privilege in America's institutions. White privilege wasn't a major problem or hideous moral failing when the benefactors and electorate looked exactly the same from a tribal perspective.

The global economy also doesn't care about protectionism, nor does it care about isolationism. It cares about commerce, productivity, performance metrics, bottom lines, and profit margins. Job security and political empowerment of people are not the global economy's major concern unless it directly and adversely impacts the production or distribution of natural and human resources.

Bottom line: White privilege is a CULTURAL problem NOT a COMMERCE problem.

White privilege is a moral failing that had huge implications in the outcomes of America's business, educational, legal, social, political, financial, and economic institutions. Americans tend to forget how systemic white privilege was in the administration of national policy. So, it's natural that as we align with the interests of a global economic order, we are alarmed and surprised to learn we can't foist our old, tired racial order on the broader global economy.

In addition, the preservation of white privilege is NOT a human rights issue—never has been, never will be. White privilege is an entitlement problem. And all chickens eventually come home to roost.

The global economy has evolved and takes no prisoners. Now, it's time for America to EVOLVE in its race relations or suffer the geopolitical consequences for remaining overly sentimental to an old establishment.

America appears stuck and ineffectual at addressing the needs and concerns of a people steamrolled by an unforgiving global economy. And the displaced are thirsty for anyone to explain this paradigm shift and promise protection from the ruthless efficiency of the new global order.

Enter snake oil salesman. . .with unrealistic promises of restoring the old racial order and dictating the terms and conditions of an evolving global economy.
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