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The devil made me bid it... QJ98xxxx x x K9xx vul. vs. not after (1H) - (4H)...

Poll: The devil made me bid it... (44 member(s) have cast votes)

What's your call?

  1. 4S (20 votes [45.45%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 45.45%

  2. P (24 votes [54.55%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 54.55%

  3. Close decision (please specify) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#21 User is offline   nekthen 

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Posted 2015-March-07, 03:11

Do not forget that North failed to find a bid so even if the 4 bidder is weak opener rates to be better than minimum
I pass
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#22 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2015-March-07, 05:17

Imo it's a clear pass, but apparently not everyone looks at it this way.
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#23 User is offline   eagles123 

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Posted 2015-March-07, 05:33

fwiw a couple of months ago I would have passed in a flash now I wouldn't even consider it. I think a lot is to do with this topic:

http://www.bridgebas...empt-from-opps/
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
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#24 User is offline   nekthen 

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Posted 2015-March-07, 06:22

 eagles123, on 2015-March-07, 05:33, said:

fwiw a couple of months ago I would have passed in a flash now I wouldn't even consider it. I think a lot is to do with this topic:

http://www.bridgebas...empt-from-opps/


Chalk and cheese!
P had less chance to bid over 2♥ than 1♥, also the example has equal vul we are red v green here

Take each hand on its merits, not by rote.
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#25 User is offline   daffydoc 

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Posted 2015-March-07, 07:24

Am aware that vulnerability is for children - but I personally dislike coming back to teammates with telephone numbers - my pard had a chance to bid and didn't - therefore I don't either. daffydoc
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#26 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2015-March-07, 07:35

 nekthen, on 2015-March-07, 06:22, said:

Chalk and cheese!
P had less chance to bid over 2♥ than 1♥, also the example has equal vul we are red v green here

Take each hand on its merits, not by rote.

True but isn't it so that the hands that would act over 1♥ but not over 2♥ are mainly hands with 5+ spades? Which we can sorta reject just by looking at our own hand.

That p did't act over 1♥ at least tells us that he doesn't have a WJO in a minor (or an unusual 2NT) which is actually reasuring when we consider a 4♠.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#27 User is offline   BillPatch 

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Posted 2015-March-07, 08:05

Ran 10 sample hands through Jack. It doesn't understand the 4♠ bid, usually overbidding by 2 tricks, even though its hands in this sample had no duplication in red suits. Despite partner's overbidding, and one phantom save, the overcall led after 10 hands 34-17 in IMPS. The law of total tricks works for the saints.
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#28 User is offline   jdgalt 

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Posted 2015-March-07, 20:18

Why is this even a problem? Change it so their side is vul and we are not, or have partner double; then it might require thought. Otherwise, not only pass but "what were you thinking?" if partner disagrees.
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#29 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2015-March-07, 21:41

 foobar, on 2015-March-06, 01:05, said:


IMPs, Vulnerable vs. not (naturally), LHO deals and the bidding goes 1♥ - 4♥.
It's your call.
IMO 4♠ = 10, Pass = 8. If partner does not become over-excited (and a good partner will make appropriate allowances), then such bids are the winning long-term action.
Guthrie.tech
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#30 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2015-March-07, 23:59

Nobody voted "close position" but that seems to be the best answer. <shrug>
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#31 User is offline   Taiwan_up 

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Posted 2015-March-08, 00:38

Averaglly speaking, 4S is better than defending against 4H and 5H is better than defending 4S.
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#32 User is offline   KurtGodel 

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Posted 2015-March-09, 08:51

Interesting how the results were very close, but everyone thought their decision was clear cut.
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#33 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2015-March-09, 18:56

Can we have the full hand please?
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#34 User is offline   foobar 

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Posted 2015-March-10, 11:58

Here are the complete hands. In retrospect, it's an interesting companion piece to the 1♥ - 4♥ thread.

Spoiler

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#35 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2015-March-10, 12:09

 KurtGodel, on 2015-March-09, 08:51, said:

Interesting how the results were very close, but everyone thought their decision was clear cut.


What results were close? The only sample set I've seen above is BillPatch's results with Jack:

Quote

Despite partner's overbidding, and one phantom save, the overcall led after 10 hands 34-17 in IMPS


It's a small sample, but still, 1.7 IMPs per hand is a huge gain in my book.
The "4♥ is a transfer to 4♠" award goes to Jinksy - PhilKing
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#36 User is offline   BillPatch 

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Posted 2015-March-10, 15:18

 Jinksy, on 2015-March-10, 12:09, said:

What results were close?

The results of the poll are close. All afternoon they have been 42 for pass, 40 for 4♠, and 0 for uncertain.
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#37 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2015-March-10, 18:46

 BillPatch, on 2015-March-10, 15:18, said:

The results of the poll are close. All afternoon they have been 42 for pass, 40 for 4♠, and 0 for uncertain.



That may have been because the third poll was originally something along the lines of "4S if the pips were better".
Wayne Somerville
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#38 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2015-March-11, 00:30

When the poll options were changed there had only been about 10 votes cast, though.
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#39 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2015-March-11, 04:40

Yes but the problem is that the options are not mutually exclusive. I may think it is close in the sence that I would think about it and that I wouldn't insist that it was "obviously" the right call in the post mortem, but not close in the sense that I would let it depend on the state of the match or which partner I was playing with. So it is better to phrase the poll:
yes/no/tossup
or, alternatively
certainly/probably/maybe/probably not/certainly not
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