[Stephen Tu]

mikeh, on 2015-January-02, 18:06, said:

Take a look at this guy. Take a look at whether he seems to engage the substance of the responses provided to him. At least in my view, he doesn't or does so in an extremely limited fashion. I really hope I am wrong. The more interested and interesting posters we have, the better. And one need not be an expert to be a very valuable and valued member of this community, so this isn't about skill level: it is about attitude and intent.

Just because someone's a bit slow on the uptake, and maybe doesn't respond directly to a point you've made the way you'd prefer him to, doesn't warrant troll accusations. You have been far too quick to jump to "troll" IMO. Some people need more guidance than others. If you really think someone is being a troll, IMO the thing to do is simply put them on ignore and don't engage. Accusing them publicly is quite unfair in the far more likely event that they weren't trolling, and likely to put them in a defensive mindset that will simply elicit posts that continue to make you think "troll", rather than promoting constructive dialog.

[whereagles]

I strongly object to hostility towards new members, even if they are pedantic. Hostility doesn't scare those out (so it's useless on them), but it does scare off other people. It's a lose-lose situation.

[jogs]

PhilKing, on 2015-January-02, 05:06, said:

To me, the correct Acol auction is. 1♠-2♣-3♣-3NT. You can't really do that in most other systems, and the key is that 3♣ is non-forcing showing a minimum.

If I held both these hands, this would be my auction whether I'm playing Acol or 2/1.

[Trinidad]

helene_t, on 2015-January-02, 13:43, said:

I strongly disagree with this.

First of all, I am not convinced that finding a heart fit is much more important than finding a minor suit fit. After all, we are probably heading for slam.

Let me ask you this: Do you think that, with an unknown partner of unknown capability, you will be able to explore for a fit in all three of your suits after partner opened in your singleton, establish that fit and have a decent slam investigation?

I won't claim it's impossible, but I consider that overly optimistic. Then, if you look at your hand (and the scoring table), which fit do you mind missing the least? I think the club fit stands out a mile as the least promising: your red suit honors will be useless in a minor suit slam and the probability that you would want to be in 3NT anyway is maximal.

So, I think it is practical bridge to forget about the club suit and limit my search for a fit to the red suits.

Rik

[the hog]

Trinidad, on 2015-January-02, 20:45, said:

Let me ask you this: Do you think that, with an unknown partner of unknown capability, you will be able to explore for a fit in all three of your suits after partner opened in your singleton, establish that fit and have a decent slam investigation?

I won't claim it's impossible, but I consider that overly optimistic. Then, if you look at your hand (and the scoring table), which fit do you mind missing the least? I think the club fit stands out a mile as the least promising: your red suit honors will be useless in a minor suit slam and the probability that you would want to be in 3NT anyway is maximal.

So, I think it is practical bridge to forget about the club suit and limit my search for a fit to the red suits.

Rik

Is the fact that pd is an unknown player any reason for you to misbid? You should always bid correctly unless you are playing with Godzilla for coin of the realm. For all you know p may the reincarnation of one of the Sharples twins.

[whereagles]

the hog, on 2015-January-03, 00:25, said:

Is the fact that pd is an unknown player any reason for you to misbid?

That depends on his skill level. No use making perfect bids if pard doesn't understand them, right?

Online you can check his skill level. Face-to-face you can easily deduce it from his way of being.

[PhilKing]

Trinidad, on 2015-January-02, 20:45, said:

Let me ask you this: Do you think that, with an unknown partner of unknown capability, you will be able to explore for a fit in all three of your suits after partner opened in your singleton, establish that fit and have a decent slam investigation?

I won't claim it's impossible, but I consider that overly optimistic. Then, if you look at your hand (and the scoring table), which fit do you mind missing the least? I think the club fit stands out a mile as the least promising: your red suit honors will be useless in a minor suit slam and the probability that you would want to be in 3NT anyway is maximal.

So, I think it is practical bridge to forget about the club suit and limit my search for a fit to the red suits.

Rik

Responding 2♣ does cater for finding a fit in all denominations - just not necessarily finding hearts when partner is 5440. But that, as has been pointed out, this is very unlikely.

What responding 2♦ does is make it impossible to find a club fit, which is probably 20 times more likely than the 5440 scenario.

[helene_t]

Trinidad, on 2015-January-02, 20:45, said:

Let me ask you this: Do you think that, with an unknown partner of unknown capability, you will be able to explore for a fit in all three of your suits after partner opened in your singleton, establish that fit and have a decent slam investigation?

I won't claim it's impossible, but I consider that overly optimistic. Then, if you look at your hand (and the scoring table), which fit do you mind missing the least? I think the club fit stands out a mile as the least promising: your red suit honors will be useless in a minor suit slam and the probability that you would want to be in 3NT anyway is maximal.

So, I think it is practical bridge to forget about the club suit and limit my search for a fit to the red suits.

Rik

Of course, playing with an unknown p the only thing I can be sure of is that if I bid 7NT it will end the auction.

If partner rebids 2♥ it doesn't matter which minor suit I started with. So the question is if there is a difference between
1♠-2♦-3♦ and 1♠-2♣-2♦ (when opener has diamonds)
and whether there is a difference between
1♠-2♣-3♣ and 1♠-2♦-2♠-3♣ (when opener has clubs)

As for 1♠-2♦-3♦ vs 1♠-2♣-2♦ (when opener has diamonds), it probably doesn't matter. In both cases we will set trumps with 4♦ or bid 4NT straight away or maybe just punt 6♦. The first auction has the advantage that we know that partner is limited so we probably don't have to explore 7. The second may have the advantage that partner is more likely to show the diamonds with a 6-4 shape but who knows with an unknown partner.

As for 1♠-2♣-3♣ vs 1♠-2♦-2♠-3♣ (when opener has clubs), I am not sure if opener will show the club support if he has QJx in hearts as he thinks we are just looking for 3NT. But OK, our hearts are good enough to make this unlikely. What if he has 6-4? In the first auction we will probably lose the clubs as he will rebid 2♠ and we probably just bid 3NT then. The second auction, I don't know. Maybe the chance of finding the club fit is a bit better in that case.

What if opener has 3-card diamond support and not too keen on notrumps? Something like 6-2-3-2 with small hearts? It will start
1♠-2♦
2♠-3♣
3♦-3NT
?

He may well pass but if he bids on (which would be reasonable), the auction will get out of control and we might as well punt 6NT.

[helene_t]

whereagles, on 2015-January-03, 05:46, said:

That depends on his skill level. No use making perfect bids if pard doesn't understand them, right?

Online you can check his skill level. Face-to-face you can easily deduce it from his way of being.

lol @online skill level.

Eh ... and unknown partner with a known skill level?

I have sometimes been in situation where I had no clue if partner was playing SA, Precision, WJ or maybe some homegrown system I had never heard about. But here we know that partner plays Acol, and we have a hand where it is very clear which bid is correct in Acol, regardless of whether we play 1950 kitchen bridge style or a contemporary tournament style. So I don't think we should try to outsmart ourselves. Just make the normal bid.

[gordontd]

jogs, on 2015-January-02, 20:39, said:

If I held both these hands, this would be my auction whether I'm playing Acol or 2/1.

I think that would be unwise playing 2/1, since then the 3C raise would be unlimited and you might well miss a slam. In Acol it's NF and therefore limited, so you are much less likely to miss something.

[lamford]

PhilKing, on 2015-January-02, 05:06, said:

To me, the correct Acol auction is. 1♠-2♣-3♣-3NT.

That is how I bid with one regular partner.

[Jinksy]

helene_t, on 2015-January-03, 06:52, said:

Of course, playing with an unknown p the only thing I can be sure of is that if I bid 7NT it will end the auction.

Dbl.




Rdbl.