[gszes]

Your hand is

K7632 K8643 87 6

I realize that is a huge number of choices but every one of those choices came up in sessions over the last month
so the topic seems worthy of discussion. This hand is from a session discussing assumed trump fit==ie is it a good
idea to assume p will fit one of your 2 majors when you are 55 and therefore count short suit points right away.

further system info that might be relevant

1. opener will strain to leave you in 2 of a major if (reasonably able with no game aspirations)
2. A rebid of 2n by opener after any of the above sequences shows no fit and near max
3. super accept is done ONLY with hands that reevaluate to (just short of 18) or better and the number of
trumps is not the only deciding factor.

Naturally I have my personal preference and have guided all mentees to that way of thinking but with so much diversity
of thought maybe the entire community can help with this concept.

[kuhchung]

show your shape and you'll at least be certain you reached the right strain, if not the right level

[hrothgar]

Seems weird to structure a poll where the answers aren't mutually exclusive.

FWIW, my answer will to some extent depend on super accept style over transfers. However, playing fairly basic stuff I am going to bid 2♣.

I'll invite over 2M
I'll correct 2♦ to 2♥

[RunemPard]

I would do whatever shows an invitational 5/5 MM hand. For me that is 1NT-2D; 2H-2S.

[helene_t]

I would sign off opposite 2♦ but bit game opposite 2M. I am not so fond of invites unless I can show the kind of invite specifically. Besides, as OleBerg says, never underestimate the power of the dark side and the ninth trump. Especially when you have an unbalanced hand.

[Cyberyeti]

Provided I have the arrangement that I normally do have over Stayman that 1N-2♣-2♦-2♥ I correct to 2♠ with 2♥/3♠ then that's the way I will bid it. I'm bidding game opposite a 4 card major. Whether I want to invite over 2♠ in the auction I gave, I'm still thinking about, I probably do, it shows very much this hand type, weakish 5-5 or 5-6.

[Zelandakh]

The hand essentially evaluates to an invite so in the conditions of the OP (15-17 without offshape tendencies and the hand type shown at the 2 level) this seems obvious to me, despite most of the posters I respect having other ideas. Some things that would make this path less appealing would be that the real range is 14+-17, a lot of off shape 1NT openings and if, like me, your 5-5 majors invite is at the 3 level. I suspect at least one and often 2 of these is the case for some of the other posters.

[Vampyr]

gszes, on 2014-September-09, 11:55, said:

2. A rebid of 2n by opener after any of the above sequences shows no fit and near max

This seems rather poor and does not seem to apply to any of the listed auctions.

[gszes]

Vampyr, on 2014-September-10, 08:25, said:

This seems rather poor and does not seem to apply to any of the listed auctions.

opener will strain to leave responder in 2M if not interested in game so if
interested in game but no fit 2N shows this hand i.e. 1n 2c 2d (2h or 2s) 2n but
responder would have to decide stayman was the best approach to this hand in
order for this sequence to happen. A much rarer application could happen if the
bidding went 1n 2d 2h 2s 2n where responder promises at least 55 in the majors and
invitational opener could conceivably wish to bid 2n with a max and 22 in the majors.

[gszes]

helene_t, on 2014-September-09, 12:45, said:

I would sign off opposite 2♦ but bit game opposite 2M. I am not so fond of invites unless I can show the kind of invite specifically. Besides, as OleBerg says, never underestimate the power of the dark side and the ninth trump. Especially when you have an unbalanced hand.

I think this means you would begin with stayman and over a 2d reply by opener you would
choose either 2h or 2s is that right??? if so which would you choose and why?

[gszes]

kuhchung, on 2014-September-09, 12:05, said:

show your shape and you'll at least be certain you reached the right strain, if not the right level

sounds dogmatic to me what specific plan is responder going to use to accomplish
this and why?

[gszes]

hrothgar, on 2014-September-09, 12:26, said:

Seems weird to structure a poll where the answers aren't mutually exclusive.

FWIW, my answer will to some extent depend on super accept style over transfers. However, playing fairly basic stuff I am going to bid 2♣.

I'll invite over 2M
I'll correct 2♦ to 2♥

Over the eons I have been playing, I have seen a ton of hands that may benefit from a
different approach than "normal". I am curious as to how the forum posters view hands
like these and what approach they might use. Nuts and bolts type hand it might also be
interesting to include something like 87654 87654 Kx K to see how much difference the
relocated honors make when it comes to deciding how to proceed as responder:)

[Jinksy]

Stayman for me, partly since I don't know what xfer to ♥s then 2♠ is supposed to show. If this hand, then obviously I bid that.

After a 2♦ response I'll sign off in ♥s (again, assuming no special agreements about the meaning), after a 2M response I'll sigh and then bid game.

[Vampyr]

gszes, on 2014-September-10, 09:00, said:

opener will strain to leave responder in 2M if not interested in game so if
interested in game but no fit 2N shows this hand i.e. 1n 2c 2d (2h or 2s) 2n

Right, this is very poor and also doesn't make sense. If responder is required to have an invitational hand in order to bid Stayman, then opener might as well bid 3NT with a good max but no fit. And if responder can bid Stayman with a very weak hand, then 2NT from opener should not exist, for obvious reasons.

[Bbradley62]

Vampyr, on 2014-September-10, 10:31, said:

gszes, on 2014-September-10, 09:00, said:

opener will strain to leave responder in 2M if not interested in game so if interested in game but no fit 2N shows this hand i.e. 1n 2c 2d (2h or 2s) 2n ...

Right, this is very poor and also doesn't make sense. If responder is required to have an invitational hand in order to bid Stayman, then opener might as well bid 3NT with a good max but no fit...

Presumably, by "no fit" you (Stef) mean specifically 22(45) shape, since with (32) or 33 in the majors you might want to allow for the possibility that responder is planning to show (54) and you want to play in a 5+3 fit.

[Vampyr]

Bbradley62, on 2014-September-10, 11:15, said:

Presumably, by "no fit" you (Stef) mean specifically 22(45) shape, since with (32) or 33 in the majors you might want to allow for the possibility that responder is planning to show (54) and you want to play in a 5+3 fit.

I don't actually know what the OP meant by "no fit". But climbing to the 3-level just in case responder has a 5-card major does not seem a very good idea.

Although obviously the OP requires some values for a Stayman bid, so maybe it is not such a disaster. And this could be normal for all I know; I don't play strong NT, so I have no idea whether passing with say, 0-5 on a balanced hand with 4-4 majors is standard.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

What do you use the 3-level Responses for?

One partner I have likes:
1NT - 3S/3H = 5/5 strong/weak

This hand would be:
1NT - 3H

[sfi]

I would like to bid Stayman and then over a 2D response ask for a 3 card major. If I can't do this, how do I show a 5/5 invitational hand in this system? Is that what transferring to hearts and bidding 2S shows?

Over a 2M response to Stayman I'm bidding the obvious game.

[rmnka447]

The shape of the hand makes it more valuable than just the point count. You are guaranteed having at least one 8 card fit and may have even better fitting hands.

I also think that IMP strategy comes into play here also. It pays to be pretty aggressive bidding VUL games.

My preference would be to transfer to 2 ♥ and then bid 2 ♠. This would show 5 ♥ and at least 4 ♠ and invitational values. (As I'm sure you know [but perhaps not some newer players not as familiar with transfers might not], 5-5 major game forcing hands would be bid by transferring to ♠ and then bidding 3 ♥.) I like this sequence because it describes your strength and shape to partner. Partner can then judge how well the hands mesh and where to place the final contract.

[hrothgar]

rmnka447, on 2014-September-21, 03:23, said:

The shape of the hand makes it more valuable than just the point count. You are guaranteed having at least one 8 card fit and may have even better fitting hands.

I think that its likely that you have at least one 8 card fit, but hardly guaranteed.

For example, I suspect that most folks would open 1NT with the following

♠ KT
♥ KT
♦ AQT6
♣ K7632