[vodkagirl]

Hi guys,

I just want to clarify bids after a 2N rebid by opener.

So with the sequence: 1♣ 1♥ 2N

3♥ would show a five card suit and invites game in it or 3N

3♠ would show a four card suit in addition to ♥s and desire for a game in the majors

4♥ would show a six card suit and is a sign off


If responder's major had been ♠s then a 3♥ rebid would show 5-4 in the majors yes?


Is there anything I am missing or need to take note of?

Looking forward to the replies.

[helene_t]

That's about right.

3♥ is 5+ hearts but does not deny four spades. 3♠ is exactly 4-4 in the majors.

[hrothgar]

Lots of folks play that a 3♣ rebid is a puppet to 3♦
You lose the ability to show preference, but you gain a lot of bidding space.

If you prefer, you can play that 3♣ is natural and 3♦ is a puppet to 3♥

[straube]

1C-1H, 2N
.....3C-forces 3D
..........3D-
...............3H-6H, slamming
...............3S-diamonds, slamming
...............3N-5H, demands correction with 3
.....3D-5H
..........3H-
...............3S-and 4S
...............3N-choice of games, opener may pass with 3
.....3H-4S but only 4H
.....3S-clubs, slamming
.....4m-self-splinter

1C-1S, 2N
.....3C-forces 3D
..........3D
...............3H-6S, slamming
...............3S-diamonds, slamming
...............3N-5S, demands correction with 3
.....3D-4H
..........3H-no fit for the majors
...............P-5/5
...............3S-to play
..........3S-3 spades
..........4H-4H
.....3H-5S
..........3S-
...............3N-choice of games
.....3S-clubs, slamming
.....4L-self-splinter

[billw55]

This auction is why new minor forcing was invented. Well, maybe that's an exaggeration, but not by much.

[Stephen Tu]

helene_t, on 2014-May-21, 12:32, said:

That's about right.

3♥ is 5+ hearts but does not deny four spades. 3♠ is exactly 4-4 in the majors.

I think 3♥ shows 6+ hearts in standard? Whether 3♠ shows 4-4 in majors or 4-5+ is agreement dependent IMO. As others note a lot use one or both minors artificially.

Straube's transfer scheme looks sound but decidedly non-standard and uncommon, not something that vodkagirl should be looking to play outside of a regular partnership.

[whereagles]

You can use 3♥ as 5+ cards because:

With 5 and no slam interest, you bid 3♥ and pass 3NT.
With 5 and slam interest, you bid 3♥ and follow up with 4NT (quantitative) over 3NT.
With 6 and no slam interest, you bid a straight 4♥.
With 6 and slam interest, you bid 3♥ and follow up with 4♥, which is an invite (on fast arrival grounds).

[wank]

what helene said

[Bbradley62]

VodkaGirl: Your BBO profile includes "NMF". Wouldn't you include it as a possible response in this sequence?

[vodkagirl]

Bbradley62, on 2014-May-21, 17:53, said:

VodkaGirl: Your BBO profile includes "NMF". Wouldn't you include it as a possible response in this sequence?

Never thought of that thanks.

[vodkagirl]

Again, I am humbled by the generosity of the forum's posters. Thanks to all who posted. Everyday a get a little better, which is in no small measure due to your help.

[Wayne_LV]

vodkagirl, on 2014-May-21, 12:21, said:

Hi guys,

I just want to clarify bids after a 2N rebid by opener.

So with the sequence: 1♣ 1♥ 2N

3♥ would show a five card suit and invites game in it or 3N

3♠ would show a four card suit in addition to ♥s and desire for a game in the majors

4♥ would show a six card suit and is a sign off


If responder's major had been ♠s then a 3♥ rebid would show 5-4 in the majors yes?


Is there anything I am missing or need to take note of?

Looking forward to the replies.

Checkback Stayman is a better approach for this bidding sequence:

1♣ - Pass - 1♥ - Pass - 2N - Pass - 3♣ (asking partner for 3 hearts or 4 spades)

With 3 hearts, partner rebids 3♥ which does not deny 4 spades
With 4 spades and only 2 hearts (partner should not have rebid 2NT with a singleton or void in hearts), partner rebids 3♠, showing 4 spades and denying 3 hearts
With neither 3 hearts nor 4 spades, partner rebids 3♦

From there you can select the best game contract based on your holding as responder.

[Zelandakh]

Wayne_LV, on 2014-May-22, 05:47, said:

Checkback Stayman is a better approach for this bidding sequence:

Transfer rebids are probably better still but I am not going to recommend them for the OP. If they are happy playing NMF for 1NT rebids then I would suggest agreeing a similar structure over a 2NT rebid for simplicity.

[helene_t]

Playing NMF, what is
1♣-1♥
2NT-3♣/♥/♠?

[steve2005]

There is another option you might want to consider especially if will respond to 1♣ light when short in ♣ to avoid playing 1♣ on 3-2 fits That is Wolff signoff bids.

You bid 3♣ for partner to puppet to 3♦ which you pass or bid 3♥ as signoff..

You can have your cake and eat it too if you allow opener to bid 3♥ with 3-card support rather than completing the puppet.

this is no more complicated than NMF

[Bbradley62]

helene_t, on 2014-May-22, 08:45, said:

Playing NMF, what is
1♣-1♥
2NT-3♣/♥/♠?

3♣ and 3♥ are to play. 3♠ shows 4/4 majors.

[barmar]

Bbradley62, on 2014-May-21, 17:53, said:

VodkaGirl: Your BBO profile includes "NMF". Wouldn't you include it as a possible response in this sequence?

I once read someone who assumed that NMF was only after 1NT rebids. But everyone I've ever played with assumed that they were on after both 1NT and 2NT, unless we had some other agreement (e.g. Wolff Signoff); I've never had to bring it up explicitly.

[aguahombre]

barmar, on 2014-May-22, 09:07, said:

I once read someone who assumed that NMF was only after 1NT rebids. But everyone I've ever played with assumed that they were on after both 1NT and 2NT, unless we had some other agreement (e.g. Wolff Signoff); I've never had to bring it up explicitly.

We have been hearing "NMF" used in conversation about the 2NT rebid for about as long as we have shunned it.

In addition to Whereagles' structure in his post #7 above, we find natural new-suit bidding by responder to work just fine. Wolff signoffs to backtrack from a garbage initial response can be avoided by not making garbage responses, passing 2NT, or sucking it up and ending in game.

The checkback for a 4-4 spade fit after 1m-1H-2NT DNE, because we have no 4-4 spade fit.

[jallerton]

aguahombre, on 2014-May-22, 10:05, said:

The checkback for a 4-4 spade fit after 1m-1H-2NT DNE, because we have no 4-4 spade fit.

Wow. What do you open with a 4=3=3=3 19-count? If you open 1♣, what do you rebid after a natural 1♥ response?
If the answer is 1♠, that puts a lot of pressure on Responder to keep the bidding open, without knowing how many clubs he needs to give preference back to clubs.
If the answer is 2♠, you make it harder to bid slams as Opener's can have so many more shapes with anywhere between 3 and 7 clubs.

[aguahombre]

jallerton, on 2014-May-22, 15:39, said:

Wow. What do you open with a 4=3=3=3 19-count? If you open 1♣, what do you rebid after a natural 1♥ response?
If the answer is 1♠, that puts a lot of pressure on Responder to keep the bidding open, without knowing how many clubs he needs to give preference back to clubs.
If the answer is 2♠, you make it harder to bid slams as Opener's can have so many more shapes with anywhere between 3 and 7 clubs.

That style has been discussed before. Bypassing spades to rebid nt is one style; not bypassing spades is another. It is the main reason why two-way checkback was developed after a 1nt rebid, and why pairs who have denied spades can effectively use simple NMF ---since spade fits are out of the mix.

In the 2NT rebid situation, a 1/1/1 is treated as forcing (unless the original response was a joke) by us to cover the balanced 18-19's and the 2S jump shift rebid is still unbalanced. I don't care which choice anyone employs. Ours is convenient for us.

BTW, if Responder had a joke 1H bid and does pass 1S, I think we are better off than in 2NT or higher with Opener's 4-3-3-3 18 count.