[aguahombre]

Zelandakh, on 2014-May-22, 04:21, said:

Certainly my reading of the ACBL regulations would be that 3♣ is alertable here for any non-natural meaning.

It is not that clear in the reading. The instruction in the alert procedure refers to NT openings, and then notes examples of rebids in 1NT or 2NT after and artificial club opening which should be treated as defacto NT openings for the purpose of NOT alerting any form of Stayman.

It is not clear whether the examples are all-inclusive, or whether it applies to all such "Notrump sequences". There is a further hedge thrown in, saying it should be alerted if the club bid could be taken as natural (by an opponent) -- so now we are expected to guess which opponents might think it isn't Stayman???

In the ACBL, they probably didn't consider Multi 2D followed by a clarifying 2NT when giving the examples --since Multi itself is spurned. But, they should have thought about Carousel and made a pronouncement for that case.

[kenberg]

Zelandakh, on 2014-May-22, 04:21, said:

Silly question but everyone seems to be assuming that 3♣ would be alerted here if Puppet and not is regular Stayman. Is there any NBO where this is actually the alerting regulation? This is quite different from the auction after a strong 2♣ opening and 2NT rebid in which many countries regulate that Stayman should not be alerted. Certainly my reading of the ACBL regulations would be that 3♣ is alertable here for any non-natural meaning. And I suspect this is true for the majority of places where this might occur.

I generally avoid the quagmire of trying to figure this all out. I have generally found it incomprehensible. But in practical terms, there was a period when you were not expected to alert and then a period when you were expected to alert. I am speaking here of acbl games and not club games. Standard Stayman was not alertable, Puppet was. I think it is nuts, and quite possibly it is not what the writers of the rules intended. Ours is not to wonder why......

[aguahombre]

kenberg, on 2014-May-22, 08:19, said:

I generally avoid the quagmire of trying to figure this all out. I have generally found it incomprehensible. But in practical terms, there was a period when you were not expected to alert and then a period when you were expected to alert. I am speaking here of acbl games and not club games. Standard Stayman was not alertable, Puppet was. I think it is nuts, and quite possibly it is not what the writers of the rules intended. Ours is not to wonder why......

Unfortunately, it is the duty of the players to "figure it all out" and comply with disclosure regulations. We might not get it right all the time, but we can't avoid it, quagmire or not.

[beatrix45]

Sorry mfa1010, but there are so many, many ways you can get jobbed on any given hand. Don't worry about one specific instance. You might mention it to the director, but do so with a properly respectful tone. This case actually sounds like it might have been completely innocent. The only way to get rid of cheaters is to build a body of evidence against them. Imo. unless this particular incident cost you more than $100 USD you have no real cause to complain.

[steve2005]

In ACBL 3♣ puppet over 2N has not been alertable for a couple of years. by extention after a 2N rebid (2♣-2♦-2N) where most people play systems on

also 1N-2♣ same thing. 1N-3♣ puppet is alertable

not that it matters the poster is from Denmark and your rarely gonna see a multi in ACBLland

[Zelandakh]

steve2005, on 2014-June-07, 10:33, said:

by extention after a 2N rebid (2♣-2♦-2N) where most people play systems on

You cannot make this extension unless the regulations say so. In the ACBL the regulations specifically do not say so *; I cannot speak for Denmark though.

Edit: * for the OP case. After a strong 1/2♣ opening the extension is explicitly given.

[olien]

I asked an acbl director about when puppet stayman is alertable and got the following response:

"Any club bid over a natural notrump opening that asks for a major is not alertable unless it is a jump."

[aguahombre]

olien, on 2014-June-07, 17:04, said:

I asked an acbl director about when puppet stayman is alertable and got the following response:

"Any club bid over a natural notrump opening that asks for a major is not alertable unless it is a jump."

A td who can read. Excellent. It applies also to a notrump rebid by opener after a strong club or 2C. It is not clear whether intended to apply after a Carousel 2D or somesuch followed by a natural NT, and IMO it should be alerted because it might not be apparent to the opposition that it is a NT sequence.

[steve2005]

inn ACBLland

not alertable

Responder’s Stayman bid, asking for a four-card or longer major, in auctions that begin with strong, artificial openings

[steve2005]

in ACBLland

not alertable

Responder’s Stayman bid, asking for a four-card or longer major, in auctions that begin with strong, artificial openings

[Zelandakh]

Read the OP again Steve. 2♦ was not a strong, artificial opening.