[Flame]

Had an intresting bid today.
1♣ (1♥) P (P)
D (P) 1♠ (P)
1NT

what do you think this 1nt mean ?

[pbleighton]

A bit of a surprise? He's sorry he doubled?

Maybe a balanced 18-19 hcp, hoping you would bid 2C.

Peter

[luke warm]

what's your nt range? whatever it is, this seems stronger... say 18, 19 with a heart stopper... the 1♠ bidder must be broke, no neg double

[HeartA]

pbleighton, on Feb 8 2005, 07:27 PM, said:

A bit of a surprise? He's sorry he doubled?

Maybe a balanced 18-19 hcp, hoping you would bid 2C.

Peter

"a balanced 18-19 hcp"? Why didn't he bid 1NT directly after 1H? This 1NT bid seems weird to me.

[pbleighton]

""a balanced 18-19 hcp"? Why didn't he bid 1NT directly after 1H? This 1NT bid seems weird to me."

Agree, but he apparently did bid it.

What's your explanation? "Brain fart", while possible, is a cop-out

Peter

[Flame]

ok ill tell you what i had, and you tell me if you think it make sense.
I had 2245. If you agree that this 1nt should show the minors, how strong do you think it should be ?

[pbleighton]

"ok ill tell you what i had, and you tell me if you think it make sense.
I had 2245. If you agree that this 1nt should show the minors, how strong do you think it should be ?"

1) I think it shows the minors if you have agreed with your partner that it does. Did you agree ahead of time, or did you make this up at the table? If you made it up, you're a lot like my partner

2) If you are going to play this, it makes sense to have it be a hand too weak to reverse. There is also a case for this being alertable.

Peter

[luke warm]

i pretty much always open 1♦ with that, even playing 2/1

[Flame]

I am totally against trying new things at the table, putting partner under presure, but when i play for practice i would be happy for apportunity like this one, its much easier to remember something afte we have seen it at the table and have both thought of its logic from both side of the table, than doing we do it tehoretically at home.

[Free]

I think the first Dbl of opener is obligated. You just don't let opps play 1X... So I actually wonder what East has, rather than what West has. He didn't dbl the first time, but bids 1♠ after a dbl This should be extremely weak.

To answer to the question: imo the 1NT bid is just a standard minimum balanced hand.

[pclayton]

2245; maybe 17 + - 19 I'd say; xx, Ax, AKJx, KQJxx looks about right.

[fred]

I have never thought about the sequence before, but I can think of a few of types of hands for which you might want to bid this way:

1) A hand like PClayton's example (2245 18-count with heart stopper)

2) A more balanced hand lacking a true heart stopper or perhaps with a non-positional heart stopper. For example:

AKx
Jxx
AKx
Axxx

3) A "suit-oriented" balanced hand with a heart stopper. Something like:

AKx
Ax
Axx
Axxxx

(I know you might open 2NT with this hand, but hopefully you get the point)

4) A strong club 1-suiter with a heart stopper that is not appropriate for any club rebid or a 2NT rebid. For example:

AJx
Kx
Ax
AQxxxx

(Yes, there are other ways you might bid this hand)

What all of these hands have in common is that they are in the 18-19 range and they are, for various reasons, slightly flawed for a 1NT balance (examples 1 and 4 because of their distribution, example 2 because of the heart holding, and example 3 because of the hand looks good for suit play).

I am not sure that 1NT "should show" any specific hand type. For one thing, when you double it's not like you know the auction is going to continue as it actually did. Also, this sequence is obscure enough that I don't think it is practical to make an agreement that opener is showing a specific hand.

Even if someone can make a strong case that 1NT "should show" only one of these hands types, I am strongly against putting partner to the test in this way. A strong partner should be smart enough to figure out the general idea, but to expect him to be exactly on the same wavelength when you trot out a strange and undiscussed sequence is losing bridge in my view.

On another note, someone claimed that passing out the opponents at the one-level is another example of losing bridge. I disagree strongly with that (there was another thread a month or so ago when I explained why).

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com

[Free]

fred, on Feb 9 2005, 06:04 AM, said:

On another note, someone claimed that passing out the opponents at the one-level is another example of losing bridge. I disagree strongly with that (there was another thread a month or so ago when I explained why).

Hmmm, I missed that thread apparently. Is there any chance you still know what thread it was exactly?

[cherdano]

Free, on Feb 9 2005, 12:48 PM, said:

fred, on Feb 9 2005, 06:04 AM, said:

On another note, someone claimed that passing out the opponents at the one-level is another example of losing bridge. I disagree strongly with that (there was another thread a month or so ago when I explained why).

Hmmm, I missed that thread apparently. Is there any chance you still know what thread it was exactly?

I think Fred is talking about this thread.

Other than that, you could search for all post by member 'fred' in the last 60 days under Bridge-Related Discussion. I can promise you would find a lot more interesting stuff on the way (Thanks Fred!)

Arend

[Chamaco]

Flame, on Feb 9 2005, 12:15 AM, said:

Had an intresting bid today.
1♣ (1♥) P (P)
D (P) 1♠ (P)
1NT

what do you think this 1nt mean ?

By elimination process, I would guess a 18-19 hand with 5431/4441 with a singleton in spades.