[straube]

This is (hopefully without error) partial continuations to 1C-1D that Meckwell played over 20 years ago. I'm not 100% on what their 1C-1D, 1S-2H used to be but I think it probably is the same as what their 1C-1D, 1H-2S.... 5-7 and 3-cd support with 5 of the other major.

1H-natural
.....1S-natural, 0-7, denies 4 hearts, denies 3 hearts with 5-7
..........2L-natural
...............2S-6S, 0-4
...............2N-GI, only 4 spades
...............3S-GI, 6 spades
..........2N-invitational
.....1N-0-4, denies 4 hearts
.....2C-5-7 and 0-2 heart
..........2D-weak relay
...............2H-2-fit
...............2S-5 spades (elsewhere is like the 2N rebid but "not positional" for NT....which seems a redundant bid to me)
...............2N-short hearts
...............3m-6m
..........2H-6 heart
..........2S-4S/5H, GF
..........2N-GF (could have rebiddable hearts)
..........3m-GF
..........3H-GI
......2D-5-7 and exactly 3 hearts
..........2H-weak
...............2S-4S/3H (mandatory because opener could be exactly 4/4 in the majors)
...............2N-both minors, short spades
...............3m-6m
..........2S-natural, GF?
..........2N-GI?
..........3m-natural, GF
..........3H-GI?
.....2H-0-4, 4 hearts
.....2S-5-7, 3H/5S
.....2N-5-7, 4H with shortness
..........3C-presumably relays for shortness
.....3m-? (why not just use 2N and 3m to show which shortness?)
.....3H-bal, 5-7
.....3S-6S/3H


Then after 1C-1D...

1S-
.....1N-0-4, denies 4 spades
.....2C-5-7, denies 3 spades
..........2D-weak relay
...............2H-5 hearts
...............2S-2 spades
..........2H-5S/4H, forcing I assume
..........2S-6S
..........2N-GF (could have rebiddable spades)
..........3m-GF
..........3H-GF, 5/5
..........3S-GI
.....2D-5-7, 3 spades
..........2H-artificial, size asking
..........2S-weak
..........2N-GF
..........3m-GF
..........3H-?
..........3S-GI
.....2H-5-7, 3S/5H?
.....2S-0-4, 4+ spades
.....2N-5-7, 4+ spades with shortness
..........3C-relays for shortness
.....3C-?
.....3D-?
.....3H-5-7, 3S/6H
.....3S-4S, bal
.....3N-?
.....4m-?
.....4H-3S/7H

So I've left a few question marks already. I'm also wondering if this idea of 1C-1D, 1H-2S and 1C-1D, 1S-2H showing 5-7 and 3M/5OM is a great idea. Why not put these hands into 1C-1D, 1M-2N? After all, I don't even
have/know the meanings for 1C-1D, 1M-3m and it appears there's room enough. This then would leave 1C-1D, 1H-2S and 1C-1D, 1S-2H for something else....presumably 5-7 and 6 OM.

The last thing is that the fit bids when opener has spades make more sense than when he has hearts. 1C-1D, 1H-3S with 5-7 6S and 3H could be too high. So maybe 1C-1D, 1H-3D?

In fact...

1C-1D, 1H

.....2N-5S/3H
.....3C-4H with shortness
.....3D-6S/3H
.....3H-4H bal

1C-1D, 1S

.....2N-5H/3S
.....3C-4S with shortness
.....3D-?
.....3H-6H/3S
.....3S-bal

Other ideas?

I've also seen...

1C-1D, 1H-2C, 2D-
.....2H-5S
.....2S-6D
.....2N-short heart
.....3C-6C
.....3D-6S
.....3H-2H

which seems very wrong to me.

[Free]

I believe they use 1♣-1♦-1M-3m as 5-7, 4M, 0-1m. When M = ♠ you have enough room to even show short ♥ and have the 2NT bid still available. When M = ♥ however you could use 2NT to show ♠ shortness.

Afaik 1♣-1♦-1M shows an unbalanced hand with 5+M or 4M-5+m (or 4441?). In case of 4M-5m I don't think it's frequent to still hold a 5-3 fit OM so you might want to stay low. When opener holds 5+M you can show your 3 card fit using 2♦ and there's no immediate need to show the OM (you can figure that out with some trial for example). So I don't think there's much need to show 5OM-3M anyway. I'd use 1♣-1♦-1♥-1♠ to show ♠s (without 3♥, or you can leave that possibility open) and 1♣-1♦-1♠-2♥ to show ♥ without 3♠. This allows you to use 1♣-1♦-1♥-2♠ for whatever purpose you want. If you want, you could use this for 6OM-3M perhaps, which is probably safe enough and quite useful as well. Note however that they also play 1♣-2M as INV with a good suit, so showing 6-3 means you don't have a good 6 card suit.

[icer]

straube, on 2014-January-29, 14:23, said:

This is (hopefully without error) partial continuations to 1C-1D that Meckwell played over 20 years ago. I'm not 100% on what their 1C-1D, 1S-2H used to be but I think it probably is the same as what their 1C-1D, 1H-2S.... 5-7 and 3-cd support with 5 of the other major.

1H-natural
.....1S-natural, 0-7, denies 4 hearts, denies 3 hearts with 5-7
..........2L-natural
...............2S-6S, 0-4
...............2N-GI, only 4 spades
...............3S-GI, 6 spades
..........2N-invitational
.....1N-0-4, denies 4 hearts
.....2C-5-7 and 0-2 heart
..........2D-weak relay
...............2H-2-fit
...............2S-5 spades (elsewhere is like the 2N rebid but "not positional" for NT....which seems a redundant bid to me)
...............2N-short hearts
...............3m-6m
..........2H-6 heart
..........2S-4S/5H, GF
..........2N-GF (could have rebiddable hearts)
..........3m-GF
..........3H-GI
......2D-5-7 and exactly 3 hearts
..........2H-weak
...............2S-4S/3H (mandatory because opener could be exactly 4/4 in the majors)
...............2N-both minors, short spades
...............3m-6m
..........2S-natural, GF?
..........2N-GI?
..........3m-natural, GF
..........3H-GI?
.....2H-0-4, 4 hearts
.....2S-5-7, 3H/5S
.....2N-5-7, 4H with shortness
..........3C-presumably relays for shortness
.....3m-? (why not just use 2N and 3m to show which shortness?)
.....3H-bal, 5-7
.....3S-6S/3H


Then after 1C-1D...

1S-
.....1N-0-4, denies 4 spades
.....2C-5-7, denies 3 spades
..........2D-weak relay
...............2H-5 hearts
...............2S-2 spades
..........2H-5S/4H, forcing I assume
..........2S-6S
..........2N-GF (could have rebiddable spades)
..........3m-GF
..........3H-GF, 5/5
..........3S-GI
.....2D-5-7, 3 spades
..........2H-artificial, size asking
..........2S-weak
..........2N-GF
..........3m-GF
..........3H-?
..........3S-GI
.....2H-5-7, 3S/5H?
.....2S-0-4, 4+ spades
.....2N-5-7, 4+ spades with shortness
..........3C-relays for shortness
.....3C-?
.....3D-?
.....3H-5-7, 3S/6H
.....3S-4S, bal
.....3N-?
.....4m-?
.....4H-3S/7H

So I've left a few question marks already. I'm also wondering if this idea of 1C-1D, 1H-2S and 1C-1D, 1S-2H showing 5-7 and 3M/5OM is a great idea. Why not put these hands into 1C-1D, 1M-2N? After all, I don't even
have/know the meanings for 1C-1D, 1M-3m and it appears there's room enough. This then would leave 1C-1D, 1H-2S and 1C-1D, 1S-2H for something else....presumably 5-7 and 6 OM.

The last thing is that the fit bids when opener has spades make more sense than when he has hearts. 1C-1D, 1H-3S with 5-7 6S and 3H could be too high. So maybe 1C-1D, 1H-3D?

In fact...

1C-1D, 1H

.....2N-5S/3H
.....3C-4H with shortness
.....3D-6S/3H
.....3H-4H bal

1C-1D, 1S

.....2N-5H/3S
.....3C-4S with shortness
.....3D-?
.....3H-6H/3S
.....3S-bal

Other ideas?

I've also seen...

1C-1D, 1H-2C, 2D-
.....2H-5S
.....2S-6D
.....2N-short heart
.....3C-6C
.....3D-6S
.....3H-2H

which seems very wrong to me.

Hi...

I think the structure is:


1♣-1♦
1♥-2♣ = 6-7 HCP denies 3+♥ or 4+♠
-2♦ = 5-7 HCP 3♥, may have 4♠
- 2N = GF relay
-3m = 6-7 HCP 6+m and 3♥

1♣-1♦
1♠-2♣ = 6-7 HCP denies 3+♠, may have 5♥
-2♦ = 5-7 HCP 3♠, may have 5♥
- 2N = GF relay
-2♥ = 5-7 HCP 5+♥, denies 3+♠
-3m = 6-7 HCP 6+m and 3♠
-3♥ = 6-7 HCP 6+♥ and 3♠

[straube]

Free, on 2014-January-30, 01:35, said:

I believe they use 1♣-1♦-1M-3m as 5-7, 4M, 0-1m. When M = ♠ you have enough room to even show short ♥ and have the 2NT bid still available. When M = ♥ however you could use 2NT to show ♠ shortness.

Afaik 1♣-1♦-1M shows an unbalanced hand with 5+M or 4M-5+m (or 4441?). In case of 4M-5m I don't think it's frequent to still hold a 5-3 fit OM so you might want to stay low. When opener holds 5+M you can show your 3 card fit using 2♦ and there's no immediate need to show the OM (you can figure that out with some trial for example). So I don't think there's much need to show 5OM-3M anyway. I'd use 1♣-1♦-1♥-1♠ to show ♠s (without 3♥, or you can leave that possibility open) and 1♣-1♦-1♠-2♥ to show ♥ without 3♠. This allows you to use 1♣-1♦-1♥-2♠ for whatever purpose you want. If you want, you could use this for 6OM-3M perhaps, which is probably safe enough and quite useful as well. Note however that they also play 1♣-2M as INV with a good suit, so showing 6-3 means you don't have a good 6 card suit.

I think there's still need to show 3M/5OM at some point somewhere. Opener would rebid 1H with 4414 for example and the partnership would miss out on a 5/4 spade fit. Or opener might have 3415 and same thing.

I sampled a few hands (like 20 so hardly any) but "as written" using 1S-2H and 1H-2S as these 5/3 hands worked out pretty well. I had balked a little at the idea of 1C-1D, 1S-2C, 2D-3H to show 6H and 1C-1D, 1H-2C, 2D-3S to show 6S...but these are really optional bids anyway. With poor 6-cd suits (a frequent occurence), responder just shows them at the 2-level.

The other thing I noticed is that a lot of the time opener was able to rebid his own 6-cd major before responder mentioned his...and that usually was just fine.

I had assumed that all of responder's spade hands without 3 hearts started 1C-1H, 1S and had then wondered how they sort things out after opener's rebid. Like 1C-1H, 1S-2D and now how does responder show values and whether he had 4 or 5 or 6 spades. Putting some of these in 1C-1H, 2C makes a lot of sense to me.

Do they really use 1C-2M as invitational? The last I heard 1C-2H was GF bal 14+ and I forget what 1C-2S was. I know they have the 4441s to put somewhere.

[straube]

icer, on 2014-January-30, 08:01, said:

Hi...

I think the structure is:


1♣-1♦
1♥-2♣ = 6-7 HCP denies 3+♥ or 4+♠
-2♦ = 5-7 HCP 3♥, may have 4♠
- 2N = GF relay
-3m = 6-7 HCP 6+m and 3♥

1♣-1♦
1♠-2♣ = 6-7 HCP denies 3+♠, may have 5♥
-2♦ = 5-7 HCP 3♠, may have 5♥
- 2N = GF relay
-2♥ = 5-7 HCP 5+♥, denies 3+♠
-3m = 6-7 HCP 6+m and 3♠
-3♥ = 6-7 HCP 6+♥ and 3♠

Thanks for replying. I just don't think this is right. Maybe it's Meckwell Lite? I used to think that 1C-1D, 1M-3m was fit-showing (3M/6m) as well but it makes more sense to start these hands with 2D and then rebid the minor. I mean, what else would these sequences be for? But when they have 4-cd support for the major, then they're wanting to have some different kinds of raises.

[straube]

I think I've figured out a couple of things.

After 1C-1D, 1S there is little upside in having responder announce 3S/5H. If opener has 5S he only needs to know about the spade fit. The only 4441 opener can have is 4144 and no heart fit there. So opener only wins learning about the 3S/5H hand holding
4351, 4360, 4315 and 4306. I looked at 50 hands where opener was 4S/5m and responder 3S/5m and there was only a heart fit in 3 of those 50 cases. So I think it works better to suppress those 3S/5H hands and just show a spade raise.

OTOH, it helps greatly to know whether responder has 5 hearts or 6 hearts when misfitting spades. So probably...

1C-1D, 1S-2C, 2D-2H shows 5 hearts

but

1C-1D, 1S-2H shows 6 hearts.

Which got me thinking about 1C-1D, 1H-2C, 2D-2S. I think this should show 6 spades and not 5+ spades and for the same sort of reasons. Also, it seems when responder holds only 5 spades that it pays to keep the bidding low. He doesn't have much direction and an benefit from learning more about opener's hand.

1C-1D, 1H-1S, 2L-?

This is a pretty normal sounding auction. Now a 2S rebid would be 0-4 and 6S but holding only 5 spades and an invitational hand responder can raise opener's hearts or second suit or rebid 2N. A spade fit can be picked up en passant like most standard auctions. Say we have an opening 1H bid and...

1H-1S, 2L-?

Same idea.

[straube]

1H-natural
.....1S-natural, 0-7, denies 4 hearts, denies 3 hearts with 5-7
..........2L-natural
...............2S-6S, 0-4
...............2N-GI (up to 5 spades)
..........2N-invitational
.....1N-0-4, denies 4 hearts or 4 spades
.....2C-5-7 and 0-2 heart
..........2D-weak relay
...............2H-2-fit
...............2S-6 spades
...............2N-short hearts
...............3m-6m
..........2H-6 heart
...............2S-6 spades
..........2S-4S/5H, GF
..........2N-GF (could have rebiddable hearts)
..........3m-GF
..........3H-GI
......2D-5-7 and exactly 3 hearts
..........2H-weak
...............2S-4S/3H (mandatory because opener could be exactly 4/4 in the majors)
...............2N-both minors, short spades
...............3m-6m
..........2S-artificial invite
...............2N-weak
..........2N-GF
..........3m-GF
..........3H-GF
.....2H-0-4, 4 hearts
.....2S-5-7, 3H/5S
.....2N-5-7, 4H bal
.....3C-5-7, 4H short clubs
.....3D-5-7, 4H short diamonds
.....3H-5-7, 4H short spades
.....3S-6S/3H


Then after 1C-1D...

1S-
.....1N-0-4, denies 4 spades
.....2C-5-7, denies 3 spades
..........2D-weak relay
...............2H-5 hearts
...............2S-2 spades
..........2H-5S/4H, forcing
..........2S-6S
..........2N-GF (could have rebiddable spades)
..........3m-GF
..........3H-GF, 5/5
..........3S-GI
.....2D-5-7, 3 spades, could have 5 hearts
..........2H-artificial invite
...............2S-weak
..........2S-weak
..........2N-GF
..........3m-GF
..........3H-GF
..........3S-GF
.....2H-5-7, 6H
.....2S-0-4, 4+ spades
.....2N-5-7, 4+ spades, bal
.....3C-5-7, 4+ spades, short clubs
.....3D-5-7, 4+ spades, short diamonds
.....3H-5-7, 3S/6H
.....3S-5-7, 4+ spades, short hearts
.....3N-?
.....4m-?
.....4H-3S/7H

[straube]

Here's a Meckwell scheme from Neil Timm's book.

1C-1D,

1H-
.....1S-includes 4+S, 3H and 5-7
..........1N-nf, may be unbalanced
..........2m-nf, natural, may be 5/4 either way
..........2H-6H
,,,,,,,,,,2S-raise
..........2N-6m, only 4H
...............3C-p/c
..........3m, 5/5 inv
..........3H-inv
..........3S-inv
.....1N-0-4, no major
..........2S-natural, f
..........other-like for 1S
.....2C-5-7, denies 4S
..........2D-weak relay
...............2H-2-fit
....................2S-5-5 minors
....................2N-other
....................3m-natural (not as good as 1M-3m)
..........2H-6
..........2S-
..........2N-GF
..........3m-GF, implies 4M/5m
..........3H-GI?
.....2D-5-7, 3H, denies 4S
..........2H-weak
...............2N-GF, often slamming in M
....................3m-natural
....................3M-other
....................3S, 4m-short
....................3N-4333
....................4M-KJx or better
..........3m-GF, implies 5+
..........3H-invite?
.....2H-0-4, 4H
.....2S-5-7, 6S
.....2N-5-7, 4+H with shortness
.....3m-5-7, 6m
.....3M-5-7, 4H, no short
.....3S-5-7, 4H, some vid

1S-
.....1N-0-4, not 4S
.....2C-5-7, not 3S
..........2D-weak relay
...............2H-5 hearts
...............2S-2-fit
...............2N-other
...............3m-suit (not as good as 1S-3m)
..........2H-5S/4+H, forcing
..........2S-6S
..........2N-GF
..........3m-GF, implies 4S/5m
..........3H-GF 5/5
..........3S-GI?
.....2D-5-7, 3-fit, denies 4S
..........2H-5S/4H, f
...............2S-weak
...............2N-GF, often slamming in M
...............3m-GF, 4S/5m
...............3H-?
...............3S-invite?
.....2H-5-7, 6H
.....2S-0-4, 4S
.....2N-5-7, 4+S with shortness
.....3m-5-7, 6m
.....3H-5-7, 6H (better than 2H)
.....3S-5-7, no shortness
.....3N-5-7, some void
1N-17-18
2C-clubs
2D-diamonds
2H-Kokish
.....2S-nearly forced
..........2N-24+
...............3C-primary hearts
...............3D-primary hearts, secondary diamonds
...............3H-primary hearts, secondary clubs
...............3S-primary hearts, secondary spades
...............3N-primary hearts, COG
2S-GF spades
2N-21-23
3C-GF
.....3D-asks a major
3D-GF
3M-GF 4M/5+D
3N-to play

[straube]

Also have this from Meckwell's 2006 convention card

1M-F1, If 4 then UNBAL 3suiter or longer MIN.
.....2m=artificial, 6-7, no fit
.....2D=artificial, 5-7, 3-fit
1N=17-18
2H=Kokish
2m=nf
2S=55+ MINs,
.....3m=invitational
2N=21-23
3m=inv

so pretty much identical to the Meckwell Lite schemes floating around.

[straube]

1H-hearts
.....1S-spades, denies 3 hearts unless 0-4
..........1N-balanced or 1444
..........2m-5/4+ either way
...............2H-weak 3 hearts
...............2S-weak, 6
...............2N-invitational, 4 or 5 spades
..........2H-6H
..........2S-4S
..........2N-inv
.....1N-0-4, denies 4M
..........2S-reverse, F1
..........2N-inv
..........3m-5+m, GF
..........3H-inv
.....2C-6-7, no fit
..........2D-artificial, weak
...............2H-2-fit
...............2S-6 spades
...............2N-short hearts, 5/4+ minors
...............3m-6m, poor suit
...............3S-6 spades, highly invitational
..........2H-6H min
..........2S-4S, GF
..........2N-GF
..........3m-4H/6m, GF
..........3H-GF
.....2D-5-7, 3-fit
..........2H-minimum, could have only 4 hearts
...............2S-4S, nf
..........2S-GF, 4S
..........2N-GF
..........3m-GF, 5m
..........3H-GI
.....2H-0-4, 4-fit
.....2S-5-7, 5S/3H
.....2N-5-7, 4-fit, shortness
..........3C-asks shortness
.....3m-6-7, natural, good suit
.....3H-6-7, no shortness

1S-spades
.....1N-0-4, not 4 spades, nf
..........2m-5/4+ either way
..........2H-5S/4H
..........2S-6S
..........2N-inv
..........3m-GF, 5m
.....2C-6-7, no fit
..........2D-weak relay
...............2H-5H, may have 2 spades
...............2S-2-fit
...............2N-short spade
...............3m-6m, poor suit
...............3H-6H, better than 1S-2H
.....2D-5-7, 3-fit
..........2H-5S/4H, nf
..........2S-minimum, could have only 4S
...............3m-6m
...............3H-6H
..........2N-GF
..........3m-GF, 4S/5m
..........3H-GF
..........3S-GI
.....2H-6-7, 6 hearts
.....2S-0-4, 4 spades
.....2N-5-7, 4-fit, shortness
.....3m-6-7, natural, good suit
.....3H-5-7, 3S/6H
.....3S-5-7, 4-fit, bal

1N-17-18

2C-natural, no major, nf

2D-natural, no major, nf, could be 5D/5C

2H-Kokish
.....2S-almost forced
..........2N-24+
..........3C-H
..........3D-H equal or longer
..........3H-H equal or longer to clubs
..........3S-H equal or longer

2S-GF 5+ spades
.....2N-asking
..........3C-S
..........3D-S equal or longer
..........3H-S equal or longer
..........3S-S equal or longer to clubs
.....3C-second negative

2N-22-23

3C-GF clubs, no major

3D-GF diamonds, no major

3H-GF, minors, shortness

3S-GF, minors, shortness

3N-to play, usually running minor and stops