[aguahombre]

4C...having dug this grave.

[FrancesHinden]

I bid 3C over partner's 1S bid, not 2H.
But having got to this point, I'll bid 3S. Although I must say the auction doesn't make sense.

[gnasher]

Isn't this 2♥ bid normally played as natural?

[PhilKing]

gnasher, on 2012-December-26, 17:02, said:

Isn't this 2♥ bid normally played as natural?

Not sure about "normally" but I play it as natural and non-forcing.

But as bid, I seem to be on the same wavelength as partner, so I'll bid Four Spades. Maybe he has:

♠QJTx
♥xxx
♦A
♣AKQxx

After all, he clearly has short diamonds (no take-out double) and a good hand (he bid three hearts), so I bid what I can make.

[gszes]

Lord Molyb, on 2012-December-25, 21:19, said:

Part 3: (what happened at the table)

---

3 hearts asks for a stopper. So, do you bid 3♠ or 4♣?

Apparently my 2h mesage was not received properly since it makes no sense to
ask for a heart stopper here. A partial stopper request however can make sense.

No matter i have nothing and now I have to decide how to proceed. In many ways
I have a miracle hand with my superb spade values fitting nicely a great probability
of a club fit (maybe even a spade fit). My hand can hardly be much better than it
is but i have no fit for sure. Bidding 3s has some benefit I cannot see the case for
4c. 3S while getting the idea of a 3 card support works but I dont think it shows just
how good this hand is and I think we will make partner suffer a bit more and bid

4h. Where is the part 3 poll?)))))))))))))))))

[Fluffy]

2♥ shows a hand that wants to play 1♥ doubled, IMO it is a powerful hand, not a weak one, with a weak one you have to live with a black suit, you need a forcing bid when you are strong.

I don't understand why partner would ask me for a stopper in my own suit, 3♥ must be natural so I would bid 3NT snce ♦J10xx is a good stopper. For what its worth I would had bid 3♣ previous round and don't see any alternative.

[PhilKing]

So what did partner have?

[FrancesHinden]

PhilKing, on 2012-December-29, 16:46, said:

So what did partner have?

I bet you 5p you won't agree with partner's bidding.

[PhilKing]

FrancesHinden, on 2012-December-29, 16:48, said:

I bet you 5p you won't agree with partner's bidding.

That's usually a sound investment.

[pirate22]

yes the poll was confusing-- i play negative x's showing 8-11 points any shape,
if next opp passes my x {neg} my pard can show his hand..if as an alternatitive
bid any -its less than 8 points.
if i had more points 1n/t shows 8-11 with a stop.
a cue bid shows 8-11 and no stop.

[bigbenvic]

I use double to show the other 2 suits at least 4-4 1♠ shows 4+ so I'd pass the first round.

When partner doesn't re-open with a double he has heart length, so I'm going to bid either 2♠ @mps or 2♣ @imps.
2♥ would be a hand that wanted to smack 1♥ and is probably invitational or better which I'm not.

Is Txx a half stopper? Is that what he's asking for?
I think it might be better for partner to play 3NT than I so I'll bid 3♠, hey maybe we play there!

[Zelandakh]

pirate22, on 2012-December-31, 00:03, said:

yes the poll was confusing--
i play negative x's showing 8-11 points any shape,
..if as an alternatitive bid any -its less than 8 points.
if i had more points 1n/t shows 8-11 with a stop.
a cue bid shows 8-11 and no stop.

It is a good job you never hold a hand of 12 points or more; otherwise you might have a problem. Please do not call your treatment "negative doubles". The name is taken and it is more confusing to use it for something like this than the poll was. Your post was also highly confusing - where I come a hand with or without a stop also comes under the heading of "any shape".

[CSGibson]

Bbradley62, on 2012-December-25, 00:51, said:

Does anyone in ACBLland actually play that a first-round double denies 4 spades, rather than shows 4 spades?

I've played that, successfully.

[PhilKing]

CSGibson, on 2013-January-18, 14:41, said:

I've played that, successfully.

Stolen bid doubles FTW.

[JLOGIC]

lalldonn, on 2012-December-25, 10:28, said:

I agree 10000%. For years I played either double or 1♠ denies four spades. Playing a treatment like that, by far the most common occurence (it wasn't even close) was that over my bid which shows 4+ or 4-5 spades the next player would bid 3♥ or 4♥ and we would be left guessing at a high level. I finally realized the difference between 4 and 5 spades is too important to give up.

Of course on the forums, showing 0-3 spades is hugely important since those are the problem hands that people post. Not that it matters on this one since I'm happy to pass the first time. I would bid 3♣ the second time.

Playing nebulous club or nebulous diamond I like having the 0-3 spade hand since you are less likely to be able to raise the minor and have more hand types where you'd like to have that bid available. Playing natural minors I am with you. I don't really care that much either way, both methods have their day.

Quote

Does anyone in ACBLland actually play that a first-round double denies 4 spades, rather than shows 4 spades?

I got a penalty for playing an illegal convention once in a NATIONAL event. Unfortunately the national fast pairs is played as GCC (presumably to speed it up), and 1S DENYING spades was illegal. We switched to X denying spades and 1S showing spades. To me this is a worse method, putting the overcaller on lead when we have spades is very useful imo(and if LHO passes, partner bidding 1S to show 3 spades is pretty useful).

[CSGibson]

PhilKing, on 2013-January-18, 14:54, said:

Stole bid doubles FTW.

To be fair, it was in context of a partnership where our 1m bids were nebulous (either a certain balanced range or unbalanced with that minor), so we were able to raise minors far less frequently, increasing the frequency of this "problem hand" type.