[gnasher]

I wonder why people are voting for 4NT rather than 4♠? Both show the mimors, obviously, but 4♠ allows partner to pass the buck with 4NT if he too is 4-4 in the minors. It seems worthwhile to allow for the sequence 4♠-4NT-5♦, getting to the suit where we have two honours rather than one. Given that we may be facing overruffs in either of the majors, playing in the more robust trump suit is likely to be important.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2012-November-19, 16:20

[JLOGIC]

gnasher, on 2012-November-19, 16:17, said:

I wonder why people are voting for 4NT rather than 4♠? Both show the mimors, obviously, but 4♠ allows partner to pass the buck with 4NT if he too is 4-4 in the minors. It seems worthwhile to allow for that sequence, because it will allow us to play in the suit where we have two honours rather than one. Given that we may be facing overruffs in either of the majors, playing in the more robust trump suit is likely to be important.

Generally in these auctions I think of 4S as a 1 suited slam try in either minor, and 4N as both minors. Probably better is 4S as both minors and 4N as 1 minor and partner bids 5D if he accepts a club slam try and slam if he accepts both but I do not play that. In this specific auction, maybe both 4S and 4N should be minors since I had a chance to bid 4m earlier and didn't so it is unnecessary to have two 5m bids, but it is obscure enough that I think I would fall back on that meta rule.

[steve2005]

even if not alerted could easily bid 3H for lead with spades if 3H is forcing can always go back to spades.

i can't fathom passing surely 3S might make, if this is imps could be very bad. partner is still doubling for takeout, they didnt suddenly finds some spades
i go with 4N pick a minor with a decent hand

[Mbodell]

So there was no alert at the table and no asking. I intentionally didn't talk about opponents because this is from the JEC match 3 weeks ago (hence why it might be familiar - I had previously asked about my second X). If we find 6m on this hand we win the match. If they take the push to 6♠ over 6m we'd win 5 on the board and lose by 1. 5m+1 would push the board, and have us lose by 6. We played 3♠X= for lose 16 on the board to lose by 22 overall. This was my partner's hand. I'm sure I would have given serious consideration to passing (hence why I wasn't sure my second X was right - and about half the poll does pass at IMPs with this hand), and likely would have at MP and might still have at IMPs, but I think I would have bid 4♦ at the table with this hand before the thread which is way too weak - after the thread I much prefer 4nt. Here were the complete hands (rotated):

---

I assume the E hand over 4nt might try 6♦ or 5nt re-ask given the double fit? Or just take the sure plus with 5♦?

[JLOGIC]

He bid 3H with only 5 points!

Also, I am not sure north would bid slam over 4N, you need the DA and CK and not to suffer a heart ruff. But I guess partner having a stiff heart is pretty likely. Still, I would think that south would bid 4N with xxx x JTxx Kxxxx. The 2nd double is a pretty strong action. That is another reason I don't understand passing, I am expecting to make 5 of a minor almost always when partner doubles a second time, why risk passing with no major suit tricks?

[uhhlv]

I wonder that there are so many people passing in this situation.

The 2nd double shows extras in points and/or distribution. I think it s always a good strategy to trust the partner more than the opps especially in a situation where it is ideal for East to make a psych and/or a lead direction bid.

I think it is not possible to have a better hand than the one I have. So many spades with no values that partners void is likely.
8 working poins and a shortness to a partner with extras. So I expect 12 - 13 tricks in a minor suit.
The only possible hand with only 11 tricks is, when partner against my expectations has a single spade and additional not the ass of hearts.
So in my opinion 4 NT is a underbid and I would prefer 5 NT.


To bid 4 diamonds or 4 clubs is kinky.