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is 1N right?

#21 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2012-October-08, 07:46

View PostPhil, on 2012-October-05, 20:49, said:

This is a classic NT hand these days (rebid problem and stiff K). Its marginally light.

Welcome to the big game.

While I don't have any problem with the 1NT opening, to say that this is a classic NT hand would be an overbid.

And to suggest that this is how top-flight bridge is played is also an overbid. I am sure if this hand were presented in the finals of the Blue Ribbon Pairs or the Platinum Pairs, and the players were required to play 14-17 1NT openers, there would be many players who would not open 1NT.
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#22 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2012-October-08, 16:12

View PostArtK78, on 2012-October-08, 07:46, said:

While I don't have any problem with the 1NT opening, to say that this is a classic NT hand would be an overbid.

He said "classic NT hand these days", which is kind of an oxymoron.

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And to suggest that this is how top-flight bridge is played is also an overbid. I am sure if this hand were presented in the finals of the Blue Ribbon Pairs or the Platinum Pairs, and the players were required to play 14-17 1NT openers, there would be many players who would not open 1NT.

Take a look at this month's Bridge World report on the Vanderbilt semi-finals, page 8. At two of the four tables, they opened 1NT holding KJT Q AQ952 QT74. The reporter (Kit Woolsey) referred to this as "the modern trend".

#23 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-October-09, 01:36

View Postbarmar, on 2012-October-08, 16:12, said:

Take a look at this month's Bridge World report on the Vanderbilt semi-finals, page 8. At two of the four tables, they opened 1NT holding KJT Q AQ952 QT74. The reporter (Kit Woolsey) referred to this as "the modern trend".

At how many of those 2 tables did they inform the opponents of the possibility? The problem is not opening 1NT with a singleton, it is opening 1NT with a singleton without telling the opponents that this is your style.
(-: Zel :-)
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#24 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2012-October-09, 08:38

View PostZelandakh, on 2012-October-09, 01:36, said:

At how many of those 2 tables did they inform the opponents of the possibility? The problem is not opening 1NT with a singleton, it is opening 1NT with a singleton without telling the opponents that this is your style.

At this level, it's considered General Bridge Knowledge I think. I think it would be more appropriate for sticklers to tradition to alert "We never open with a singleton" in this event. :)

#25 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2012-October-09, 11:19

View Postbarmar, on 2012-October-09, 08:38, said:

At this level, it's considered General Bridge Knowledge I think. I think it would be more appropriate for sticklers to tradition to alert "We never open with a singleton" in this event. :)

There's a big difference in the level of the event between the Vanderbilt semi-finals and a BBO Fans game. OP probably played that hand against the one star player in the field.
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#26 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2012-October-10, 08:48

View PostBbradley62, on 2012-October-09, 11:19, said:

There's a big difference in the level of the event between the Vanderbilt semi-finals and a BBO Fans game. OP probably played that hand against the one star player in the field.

I wasn't commenting on how likely this was in a BBO Fans game, I was responding to ArtK78, who said "And to suggest that this is how top-flight bridge is played is also an overbid" and then mentioned the finals of the Blue Ribbon or Platinum Pairs. While my sample size (4 tables) was not very large, I suspect it was representative of those fields. I wouldn't be surprised if at least 30% of those fields opened 1NT.

#27 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2012-October-10, 12:12

I was trying to bring the conversation back around to addressing OP's situation. In the intermediate/advanced (sub-expert) level game in which this hand was actually played, 6 of the 23 Wests opened in first seat, leaving 17 Easts the possibility of opening in third seat. Of the 17, 15 opened 1, 1 (our star) opened 1N and 1 passed. Of course, the vast majority were probably playing 1NT=15-17, not 14-17, so these stats may not be at all relevant.

So: playing in a game where it cannot be considered "general bridge knowledge" that people open 1NT with singletons, is any disclosure required of pairs who routinely do this?
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#28 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2012-October-10, 13:00

View PostBbradley62, on 2012-October-10, 12:12, said:

So: playing in a game where it cannot be considered "general bridge knowledge" that people open 1NT with singletons, is any disclosure required of pairs who routinely do this?

Yes, if it's really "routine". But I doubt it actually happens.

Similarly, I expect expert players routinely preempt more aggressively than average players, but I don't expect that they actively disclose this.

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