[dwar0123]

2/1
First time playing with this partner at a club game, partner is adv+.

---

My general bridge knowledge would have me believe this showed a 5-4 hand and inv values.

My partner felt it showed a very weak single suited spade hand, to weak to bid 2s and not really wanting to preempt at the 3 level.

I have to admit his interpretation has a lot of merit, just odd that I have never seen or heard of this before.

Is this pretty standard stuff?

[manudude03]

I prefer the partner's treatment myself, though I wouldn't say very weak, more like a non-trashy weak 2 in spades. It doesn't seem to be standard, even if it makes sense as a negative double. Compare this to 1D-(1S)-X-2C-2H, isn't that what we would like to do with AQxxxx in hearts and out?

[CSGibson]

manudude03, on 2012-September-17, 16:18, said:

I prefer the partner's treatment myself, though I wouldn't say very weak, more like a non-trashy weak 2 in spades. It doesn't seem to be standard, even if it makes sense as a negative double. Compare this to 1D-(1S)-X-2C-2H, isn't that what we would like to do with AQxxxx in hearts and out?

I think you missed that he is a passed hand, having an opportunity to bid a weak 2 originally. I would probably play this as 5 spades and 3-4 diamonds, but too weak to bid 2♠, intuitively, but maybe that's too restrictive.

[dwar0123]

CSGibson, on 2012-September-17, 17:15, said:

I think you missed that he is a passed hand, having an opportunity to bid a weak 2 originally. I would probably play this as 5 spades and 3-4 diamonds, but too weak to bid 2♠, intuitively, but maybe that's too restrictive.

Would you open a first seat weak 2 spade with a 4 card heart suit?

[CSGibson]

dwar0123, on 2012-September-17, 17:24, said:

Would you open a first seat weak 2 spade with a 4 card heart suit?

No, but I also wouldn't be suggesting another strain with a 4 card heart suit - I'd either pass or raise hearts.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

When the minors are bid, some say the Neg-DBL should guarantee BOTH Majors, but how often does that happen ?

I think Responder's 2S-after-Neg DBL should be weak and not promise anything in ♥-- and weaker than if it were bid directly .
But what if Opener had jumped to 3H ? Can such a Responder hand tolerate that ?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The system I like, and I've mentioned it before, is that the Neg-DBL shows ♠ and says nada about ♥ .

[aguahombre]

The answers here are different, depending on whether we are in the group of players who always open a weak two-bid in first seat with 6 of them, regardless of suit quality or dispersement of outside cards.

For us, it is still possible to have 6 spades and not a heart suit after this negative double.

[Hanoi5]

You're correcting your negative double, not your take-out double.

[Bbradley62]

dwar0123, on 2012-September-17, 16:10, said:

My partner felt it showed a very weak single suited spade hand, too weak to bid 2s and not really wanting to preempt at the 3 level.

This was completely standard 25 years ago

[aguahombre]

Bbradley62, on 2012-September-17, 19:07, said:

This was completely standard 25 years ago

and, unless playing negative freebids or random 2S opening bids, it still is standard.

[JLOGIC]

I would bid this way with Qxxxxx Axx xx Jx or something. Guess I am old fashioned, I don't think it implies anything other than a hand too weak to bid 2S to begin with.

[Codo]

If you play this sequence as weak with spades, how do you react after a jump from partner to 3 ♥?

[JLOGIC]

Codo, on 2012-September-18, 01:52, said:

If you play this sequence as weak with spades, how do you react after a jump from partner to 3 ♥?

You'd bid 3S?

[Fluffy]

This shows spades with the opposite range of a 2♠ bid directly in your agreements. In standard it is strong directly and weak after double, playing NFB it is the opposite.

[broze]

2♣ overcalling 1♦ - screwing with the opponents' major auctions since the beginning of the game.

[Codo]

If you play this sequence as weak with spades, how do you react after a jump from partner to 3 ♥?

JLOGIC, on 2012-September-18, 05:17, said:

You'd bid 3S?

So the downside is that I face Qxxxxx Axx xx Jx oppsite x,KQxx,AKQxx,xx and partner needs to find a good bid after 3 ♠? (4 ♥ is one, but does he know that I have so good heart support?)

Wouldn't it be smarter to change the meaning of double and then spades and a direct 2 ♠ bid? In this case you are a level lower in non fit situations and you at least have the values for game if partner jumps around with a strong opening bid.

[JLOGIC]

Codo, on 2012-September-18, 06:23, said:

If you play this sequence as weak with spades, how do you react after a jump from partner to 3 ♥?


So the downside is that I face Qxxxxx Axx xx Jx oppsite x,KQxx,AKQxx,xx and partner needs to find a good bid after 3 ♠? (4 ♥ is one, but does he know that I have so good heart support?)

Wouldn't it be smarter to change the meaning of double and then spades and a direct 2 ♠ bid? In this case you are a level lower in non fit situations and you at least have the values for game if partner jumps around with a strong opening bid.

Negative free bids come with their own problems too. No method will work on every hand. In general, playing either method whenever you are dealt a 2S bid rather than a double, you will come out ahead in those cases.

[gwnn]

Codo, on 2012-September-18, 06:23, said:

Wouldn't it be smarter to change the meaning of double and then spades and a direct 2 ♠ bid? In this case you are a level lower in non fit situations and you at least have the values for game if partner jumps around with a strong opening bid.

The smartest is to use transfers (ok you lose the 2D bid). Or Han et al use double promising one particular major and 2D promising the other major.