[frank0]

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Am I allowed to pass in this sequence?

What do you do with the following hand and what kind of hand(range) do you expect for partner's hand?

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[ahydra]

I'd say you're allowed to pass, and would with the hand given. Partner should know you have nothing. It might be different if you voluntarily showed values (e.g. by bidding 3S over 3H).

What do I expect for X then X? probably a big hand - could be a range of shapes but with the hand given, likely some sort of 31(54) with about 16+ HCP. Then again, not too many HCP because he couldn't double 5H. So AKx x KQxxx KQxx? But that looks like it should double 5H...

ahydra

[ggwhiz]

ahydra, on 2012-September-13, 10:08, said:

I'd say you're allowed to pass, and would with the hand given.

I think it's a MUST pass. In my partnership we are only allowed to bid here if we think we have at least a chance of making. May be the case if the 3♥ bid is weak instead of invitational (which you don't specify) but still a stretch.

That gives pard the freedom to bid like this and force them into 5♥, hopefully down 1 without getting hung out to dry.

[Bbradley62]

ggwhiz, on 2012-September-13, 10:32, said:

May be the case if the 3♥ bid is weak instead of invitational (which you don't specify) but still a stretch.

I'm a little puzzled by this... doesn't virtually everyone play that 3♥ is weak in this auction? It is in both SAYC and BBO 2/1.

[ggwhiz]

Bbradley62, on 2012-September-13, 11:32, said:

I'm a little puzzled by this... doesn't virtually everyone play that 3♥ is weak in this auction? It is in both SAYC and BBO 2/1.

Agreed BUT, I play in a few individuals for entertainment and it's about to 50-50 to be limit there and a bid you always must ask about or get sandbagged. Iv'e seen it bid as forcing more than a few times too.

[SteveMoe]

Partner's 2nd double is takeout. I'm expecting 4=0=4=5 or similar with 15-17 HCP.
♠KQxx ♥- ♦KQxx ♣KQxxx would be a minimum expectation. Some will dispute this aceless hand as worth getting to 4♠. Swap an Ace for a minor suit Queen and partner should double. They will run out of aces before we get 4 tricks. Swap the ♠Q for the Ace and partner should lay off - we might not be getting 2 ♠ tricks.
With the hand shown I pass. I expect we will lose 3 tricks. (11 losers + 3 Losers --> 10 Tricks).

[paulg]

Partner has forced to game at unfavourable vulnerability, so I don't think you can pass here. If it all goes horribly wrong, then I blame partner given he doubled them a level lower!

[Codo]

Partner with no sign of life from me doubled them twice and now they are one level higher? I would surely play his pass as forcing.
Waht do you fear? Even if they make, it does not cost the world.

The question is: Why did partner not double 5 ♥? I guess because he thought (rightly) that his pass is forcing and that we will make the right descission. We will by doubling.

[han]

Maybe partner did not double 5H because he has a 16-count and showed his hand already.

[Fluffy]

Playing it as not focing is better IMO for this sequence, benefits for a forcing pass that transfers a guess are always lower than downsides for having to bid or double when neither is right. If you add to the mixture that a "bad 16"3 suiter is more likelly than a good one with extras willing to adventure 5+♠ you get it very clear.

But what is better for this particular case is not important, this is a matter of agreements between partners, for me all forcing pass sequences need at least 1 positive/free bid from each player asde from other factors, the only exception to this is a 2♣ opener.

Since partner didn't open 2♣ and we made no free bid there is no possible forcing pass to apply