[Wackojack]

You open 1NT, 15-17 no trump, you are playing Lebensoh and double of an overcall is for take-out. What kind of hand does partner have after this sequence?

1NT -(2♥)-dble-(3♥);
pass- pass- 3♠

[aguahombre]

With Leben in use, it seems all possible hands which still want to bid that high would have been covered by other sequences...immediate 3H for the G.F, 3-suiters....3S, or 2nt then 3S for the spade hands...3m for the hands with spades and longer minor...2NT, then double for g.f stayman with heart stop. Nothing left for this one, IMO.

[helene_t]

An invitational hand with five spades doesn't fit into lebensohl and I think it would be sensible to bid such a hand this way.

I suppose a 40(45) with chuncky spades and invitational values is also possible.

[fromageGB]

An invitational hand with 5 spades would bid 2NT then 3♠ - at least I did when playing Lebensohl.

This seems like he wanted you to play the hand, so he is essentially 3 suited with short hearts, wants to bid on rather than let them play, and was frightened of a second double because you might take it for penalties.

He can't be a game hand with 4 spades because that hand bids 3♥. So, to play, but happy for you to bid a 5 card minor if you have one.

[aguahombre]

 fromageGB, on 2012-August-07, 05:04, said:

An invitational hand with 5 spades would bid 2NT then 3♠ - at least I did when playing Lebensohl.

Me, too. 2NT, then a suit above RHO's suit invites; in other situations we pretty much either force to game or try to play part score --most invites are lost.

Many reasonable forum posters have suggested invites are over-rated in notrump auctions with or without competition, but Leben does give us a couple of them.

[ggwhiz]

Is this a pickup partnership?

If the double was the dreaded (and to my mind REALLY dumb) stolen bid deal the 3♠ bid just confirms stubborness as well. You stated the conditions but I'm always wary of any player that even hints at "stolen bid".

[Wackojack]

 aguahombre, on 2012-August-07, 03:27, said:

With Leben in use, it seems all possible hands which still want to bid that high would have been covered by other sequences...immediate 3H for the G.F, 3-suiters....3S, or 2nt then 3S for the spade hands...3m for the hands with spades and longer minor...2NT, then double for g.f stayman with heart stop. Nothing left for this one, IMO.

{comments}

---

I didn't know quite what to make of partner's 3♠ bid and thought it most likely just competing. So I passed.

Here is an e-mail post mortem:
Hand 16
Me:
I think maybe you are right, I should bid 4♠ in any case. I have just put this hand to the forum. I hope the opinions roll in soon. http://www.bridgebas...s-partner-have/

Partner:
"It will be interesting to see what other people think but it can’t be weak as I would have bid 2S to start with."




Me:
Is this what we play?
1NT-(2♥)-2♠ = to play Yes

1N-(2♥)-2NT-(3♥)
P (-p) -3♠ = invite Yes

1NT-(2♥)-3♠ = Game force Yes

Me: This must be right if you have a 6 card spade suit. I can see that with 5 spades and a game going hand, you want to keep the choice of 3N or 4♠ open. Yes


So bid suit with 6 either direct for game force or via Lebensohl for invite. Double then if partner bids 3 minor,(or opps compete with 3♥) bid 3♠ forcing 5 card suit. Is this too esoteric? Is there a flaw?

[sailoranch]

Is there anything keeping us from 3NT after 1NT - (2♥) - 3♠? Responder can always correct with six spades.

[kuhchung]

i would have guessed something funny like 4S6m... certainly not a single suited game force with spades

[SteveMoe]

Would seem the negative double expresses doubt about ♥ stoppers. 1N-2♥-3♠ can be bid on 5 cards...perhaps the stopper distinction is useful - I wouldn't mind playing in a 5-2 fit when we don't stop ♥.

[P_Marlowe]

At least 5 spades, gf values, and he was interested in going for blood, but
after they told us, that they have a 9 card fit, the interest vanished.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Phil]

 kuhchung, on 2012-August-07, 14:05, said:

i would have guessed something funny like 4S6m... certainly not a single suited game force with spades

Wouldn't he bid 4m with this pattern? I suppose if the minor was really good and the spades were lousy and he didn't want to bypass 3N? How about Jxxx x AQxxxx xx??

I guess that means with four good spades and a bad six card minor partner bids 4m. KQTx x Qxxxxx xx.

Bridge is hard.

[P_Marlowe]

 Wackojack, on 2012-August-07, 12:14, said:

<snip>
So bid suit with 6 either direct for game force or via Lebensohl for invite. Double then if partner bids 3 minor,(or opps compete with 3♥) bid 3♠ forcing 5 card suit. Is this too esoteric? Is there a flaw?

#1 If he has GF values and 6 spades, he always can bid 4S, ... unless he has SI.
#2 With a bal. hand, 5332 shape, min GF values, the option going for blood, trying to take the sure plus,
will quite often be an interesting alternative, if we have 24-25 HCP between us, and they have only
a 8 card fit, will they make 2?? - and will we make our game contract?

With kind regards
Marlowe

[kuhchung]

 Phil, on 2012-August-09, 09:39, said:

Wouldn't he bid 4m with this pattern? I suppose if the minor was really good and the spades were lousy and he didn't want to bypass 3N? How about Jxxx x AQxxxx xx??

I guess that means with four good spades and a bad six card minor partner bids 4m. KQTx x Qxxxxx xx.

Bridge is hard.

I dunno. I was just trying to come up with obscure stuff since I really don't know what this auction shows. But we certainly don't have to reinvent the wheel and find another way to GF with spades, was my main point.