[gwnn]

AKJT9xx
Jx
Jxx
x

4th seat, all red, imps.

There are two or three ways of playing 4th seat preempts, which one do you play and what do you open with this hand?

Full hand for those who can't wait:

Spoiler

http://eurobridge.or...ard=020.06..732

Notice anything interesting? Sorry team, didn't mean to troll...

[Lurpoa]

gwnn, on 2012-June-01, 01:44, said:

AKJT9xx
Jx
Jxx
x

4th seat, all red, imps.

There are two or three ways of playing 4th seat preempts, which one do you play and what do you open with this hand?

Full hand for those who can't wait:

Spoiler

http://eurobridge.or...ard=020.06..732

Notice anything interesting? Sorry team, didn't mean to troll...

♥ ♥♥

4th seat preempts ???

=Oxymoron



♥ ♥♥

[gwnn]

Even if your nitpick was based on reality, which it isn't: http://larryco.com/B...x?articleID=187 don't you think it is time to extend your forum contributions from ridiculous upvotes and occasional trollish posts?

[Statto]

I don't know which school of thought I belong to, but 4♠ seems to be the practical bid, as 3♠ may risk partner passing and missing a vuln game...

[DrMunk]

gwnn, on 2012-June-01, 01:44, said:

AKJT9xx
Jx
Jxx
x

4th seat, all red, imps.

There are two or three ways of playing 4th seat preempts, which one do you play and what do you open with this hand?

Full hand for those who can't wait:

Spoiler

http://eurobridge.or...ard=020.06..732

Notice anything interesting? Sorry team, didn't mean to troll...

I would bid 3♠. Partner should know that this is constructive since it is in 4th hand. Assuming that spades are running, partner needs 3 tricks for us to make game. Most of the time he would raise to 4♠ with that. Another advantage with 3♠ is that we still could reach 3nt, which could be our only making game..
The gain from bidding only 3♠ is when partner holds a hand with soft values and 3♠ is our highest making contract.

And yes 3♠ is still a preempt since opponents could still have the highest making contract, but obviously it is a constructive preempt.

[mgoetze]

gwnn, on 2012-June-01, 01:44, said:

Notice anything interesting?

I noticed that Germany gained a lot of IMPs on this board.

On a more serious note, after 3 passes we know approximately how much values partner has. What we don't know is how they are distributed, e.g. are they in clubs? If I'm playing a method which might allow me to figure some of this out, e.g. short suit trial bids, it may be worthwhile opening 1♠. Otherwise I might as well bid what I'm going to bid anyway - at IMPs vulnerable, that would probably be 4♠.

[guido]

Lurpoa, on 2012-June-02, 01:21, said:

♥ ♥♥

4th seat preempts ???

=Oxymoron



♥ ♥♥

Nonsense. A preempt is not a sacrifice, per se. In 4th seat a preempt can be useful as both a descriptive call and to discourage opponents' bidding when you strong offense and minimal defense.

[Codo]

I would open this 2 Spade, partner needs something like x, KQxx,KQxx,xxxx to make game on a finesse. He will raise me with three potential tricks.
3 Spade would ask for less to make game.

[Statto]

guido, on 2012-June-02, 08:36, said:

Nonsense.

I think you are all being a bit harsh. The point behind the post was valid - you don't open at the 2/3 level in 4th seat with the same hands as in other seats

However, I tend to agree with the silly upvoting point. Lurpoa, do you realize that the number of dots appearing against the poster reflects the number of posts they've made, not their reputation.

[kenberg]

May I comment of the full deal? Those still wishing to reflect on the choice of bids w/o knowledge of the full deal should not read further.


Let's say I open 2♠. If W passes, I would expect an invite of 3♠ from N, and I decline (?). But W would not pass over 2♠, would he? I should think a double. Now it seems a 3♠ from N is simply to play 3♠, right?

So it seems that this interesting hand spawns some questions as to who would do what and what it means.


Surely if I open 3♠ partner would raise to 4, would he not? He can hardly have a less suitable hand. Or would the lack of aces indicate restraint?

My general view, I think it is fairly mainstream, is that opening in spades, fourth seat, at a level higher than 1 indicates that a. I am quite certain that this hand should be played in spades, and b. assuming the remaining points to be more or less evenly distributed I figure the chance are good that I can make my bid. With that in mind I think 2♠ is enough here, but then I did see all of the hands.

[Siegmund]

I am a bit surprised to see so many votes for 3S and 4S in fourth seat on this hand. I would open it 2S and feel I barely had my bid. (If partner raises to 3S, and I am not sure he should unless LHO acts, I would leave it.)

I do like my fourth seat openers a little sounder than most - generally 1 trick short of the bid.

[Quantumcat]

I play 4th seat pre-empts as asking pard to bid game with any maximum pass or medium pass and good fit, and raise with a medium pass or a weak pass with a good fit. Therefore I would open 2♠ and pass if pard only makes a single raise.

[32519]

I don’t see any need to pre-empt this hand in fourth seat at all. It exceeds the requirements for the Rule of 15 (10 HCP plus 7X♠ = 17). You have the boss suit 7-cards strong so there is absolutely no need to run the risk of overbidding the hand with a 3-level or 4-level pre-empt. Converting a plus score into a possible minus is just dumb. Therefore I will open the hand with 1♠.

I disagree with those who chose to open the bidding with 4♠. The hand isn’t going to take any tricks in the side suits. The lead will be through dummy and any trick taking potential in dummy will be severely hampered (both the opening lead and the subsequent play of the hand). If you want to play in 4♠ then let partner play the hand, not you. Therefore I would rather open 4♦ as Namyats and let partner play the hand in 4♠.

[Quantumcat]

If the opponents have a nine-card heart, diamond or club fit, you won't be able to keep them out of the 3-level when you open 1♠. This is one of the main reasons for opening at the 2-level. However I do agree with your opinion on opening 4♠.

[32519]

Quantumcat, on 2012-June-04, 00:30, said:

If the opponents have a nine-card heart, diamond or club fit, you won't be able to keep them out of the 3-level when you open 1♠. This is one of the main reasons for opening at the 2-level. However I do agree with your opinion on opening 4♠.

With that nice ♠ suit it is unlikely that the opponents are going to outbid you. Those that tried and ended in 4♦ went down 2.

Weak Two Bids in 4th Seat have been discussed before. There is another reason why I won’t open the hand with 2♠ in fourth seat. It violates the rest of my system agreements. In the other thread I posted that my agreements in fourth seat have been “flipped.” For your benefit I have copied that post in here.

32519, on 2012-March-20, 00:14, said:

You have made a lengthy post here arguing why something will work or won’t work. Let me fill you in on the finer detail of how and why we play fourth seat 2♥ or 2♠ promising a 6-card suit and 14-15 HCP.

Here’s the deal:
In 1st and 2nd seat we open standard weak 2’s with 5-11 HCP. When responder has 15+ HCP and game interest, we play “Feature Showing” 2NT.
In 4th seat this basic agreement has been “flipped.” Now it is opener showing the 6-card suit and 14-15 HCP. Armed with this information, responder has plenty of options. Your partnership can agree on which of the following you wish to incorporate:
1. Pass is obvious. No interest in further exploration.
2. 2NT = interest in playing 3NT from responders side, 10-11 HCP. Responder has some guarded Kings and wishes to protect them. Responder is also showing a 2-card fit with openers major and is hoping to make 6 tricks in openers major plus another 3 anywhere else.
3. 3 any = shortness and game interest in openers major. Opener can decide if the shortness fits in with the rest of his hand. Due to lack of trumps in responders hand, this option is not recommended.
4. 3 any = length and game interest in openers major. A possible source of tricks and is a better option than 3.
5. Picture Showing = showing an Ace or King in the suit bid and interest in game in openers suit.
6. 3M = balanced/semi balanced with 10-11 HCP, no Kings needing protection. The bid invites 3NT from opener's side or 4M.