[Cyberyeti]

IMPs EW vul

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[Codo]

I would try 3 ♣- running minor asking for a stop. Hopefully this will stop West from bidding some number of spades.
If Partner shows a control, I try 4 ♦ to set up a force with diamonds.
If partner denies a control, I blast 6 diamonds.

[Cyberyeti]

 Codo, on 2012-May-24, 04:31, said:

I would try 3 ♣- running minor asking for a stop. Hopefully this will stop West from bidding some number of spades.
If Partner shows a control, I try 4 ♦ to set up a force with diamonds.
If partner denies a control, I blast 6 diamonds.

A question, if LHO does bid 3♠, does 3N show both stops or just a club stop ? Is double values/takeout or penalty ?

[dkham]

I like bidding 3♣ for a club stop - if partner has a club stop I'll play 3NT, else insist on diamonds.

[Zelandakh]

 Cyberyeti, on 2012-May-24, 04:48, said:

A question, if LHO does bid 3♠, does 3N show both stops or just a club stop ? Is double values/takeout or penalty ?

One possibility would be to play 3NT as showing stops in both suits, pass as showing a club stop but denying anything in spades and double as showing spade values (optional). Or perhaps reversing the pass and double.

[Codo]

To me 3 NT over 3 ♠ would show just a club stop, this is what I asked for. If I had worries about two suits, I had bid different.
I doubt that I will see the problem often enough to create more rules for this situation then this... If I would, Zels ideas are pretty good- as usual.

[Cyberyeti]

 Codo, on 2012-May-24, 05:28, said:

To me 3 NT over 3 ♠ would show just a club stop, this is what I asked for. If I had worries about two suits, I had bid different.
I doubt that I will see the problem often enough to create more rules for this situation then this... If I would, Zels ideas are pretty good- as usual.

OK, I'll go with that.

Spoiler

If you bid 3 clubs, it continues 3 spades 3N (club stop, nothing said about spades) 4 spades back to you

[dkham]

In response to the continuation above, I'll now bid 5♦.

[Codo]

Ugly situation, but 5 ♦.

[the_clown]

I would start with 1♦ and see what happens.

[ggwhiz]

 the_clown, on 2012-May-24, 12:42, said:

I would start with 1♦ and see what happens.

I agree with this. With the 3♣ approach asking for a stopper you have actually pre-empted yourself into a pin the tail on the donkey guess.

1♦ - 1♠ if my pard can squeek a bid showing hearts, I'm probably bidding 6 of them. Or squeek any other bid and 6♦ is at least in play.

I expect to worm my way into something doubled and cold regardless by walking this dog.

[FrancesHinden]

I would overcall 1D. This can easily be our hand and I don't want to play in 3NT opposite something like J10xxx Kx Qx QJxx
Make the diamond suit spades and I think everyone would double; I can't face doubling with a spade void, but I will be seriously surprised if 1D ends the auction.

[Cyberyeti]

 FrancesHinden, on 2012-May-24, 13:35, said:

I would overcall 1D. This can easily be our hand and I don't want to play in 3NT opposite something like J10xxx Kx Qx QJxx
Make the diamond suit spades and I think everyone would double; I can't face doubling with a spade void, but I will be seriously surprised if 1D ends the auction.

This was my view when the hand came up (I was minding my own business as W). What do you reckon (P)-P-(1♣)-1♦-(2♠fit)-X means ? and what would 3♣ instead of X mean ?

[Zelandakh]

 Cyberyeti, on 2012-May-24, 15:12, said:

What do you reckon (P)-P-(1♣)-1♦-(2♠fit)-X means ? and what would 3♣ instead of X mean ?

Double is surely negative. Given that the hand is limited by the initial pass I would expect some diamond tolerance to go with the hearts. 3♣ would be a good diamond raise, what else? As a bonus, 3♥ has to be a FNJ since there is no hand that would want to bid this naturally now.

[Cyberyeti]

 Zelandakh, on 2012-May-25, 00:47, said:

Double is surely negative.

Agreed, I wondered if anybody was going to say something else like support.

Quote

Given that the hand is limited by the initial pass I would expect some diamond tolerance to go with the hearts. 3♣ would be a good diamond raise, what else? As a bonus, 3♥ has to be a FNJ since there is no hand that would want to bid this naturally now.

OK, so partner doubles and RHO bids 4♠, your bid.

[the hog]

I cannot understand any other bid apart from 1D. 3C is a joke, partner bids 3NT as requested on say Kx or Qxx and they run x spades as well as push a C though partner's stopper. Eho says the ds will run anyway?

[Codo]

Dear Ron, if you ask partner to bid 3 NT with a club stopper, you are still not forced to pass 3 NT. At least my idea of 3 Club was different and one of the main goals- beside finding out about possible wasted club values- was to make it more difficult for them to enter the bidding with spade bids.
This idea failed this time, but 1 ♦ will never ever stop them from bidding spades.

[phil_20686]

 the hog, on 2012-May-25, 03:35, said:

I cannot understand any other bid apart from 1D. 3C is a joke, partner bids 3NT as requested on say Kx or Qxx and they run x spades as well as push a C though partner's stopper. Eho says the ds will run anyway?

Not to mention, if partner has a hand like Axxx Kxx xxx Kxx, or some such, you are cold for grand.

I think this hand is good enough for a double and bid diamonds approach. Since you will not be selling out below 5d regardless, there is not so much worry about "lack of defensive strength".

While i agree that 1d is unlikely to be passed out, I am not sure how, if I start with 1d I will ever be able to persuade partner quite how good my hand is. If I double and jump bid diamonds, then at least there is a chance to reach slam.

[dkham]

In the situation described, where the opponents now bid 4♠. Given that partner made a negative double showing hearts, I'm fairly confident in bidding 6♦.

[Zelandakh]

 Cyberyeti, on 2012-May-25, 02:53, said:

OK, so partner doubles and RHO bids 4♠, your bid.

6♦ now - 5♣ followed by 6♦ ought to be an option too (caters to phil's hand for example) but I think it is too likely to help them more than us. I have a horrible feeling there is going to be another decision over 6♠.