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A five level decision! Your call

Poll: A five level decision! (24 member(s) have cast votes)

Your call

  1. Pass (10 votes [41.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.67%

  2. Double (13 votes [54.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 54.17%

  3. 6D (1 votes [4.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.17%

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#1 User is offline   jules101 

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Posted 2012-April-18, 02:17

MP pairs



Your call!
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#2 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-April-18, 02:30

partner preempted and they guessed, nothing to say.
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#3 User is offline   jdeegan 

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Posted 2012-April-18, 03:06

:P We are vul vs nvul. You are probably going to beat 5, so a double is not at all insane, but esp. at IMP's it has relatively little to gain assuming partner is something like nine missing the ace. If we are playing catch up, then I would double to protect our 'equity' on the theory that partner may have been stepping out a bit because of the state of the match.
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#4 User is offline   jules101 

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Posted 2012-April-18, 03:13

I should have said this was MP pairs (I keep forgetting to do that) - now corrected.


For those who are passing could they explain what they think partner has got in her hand to open 5D vulnerable 1st seat?

You look like you have 2 cashing tricks, possibly more.

Will partner have none for her 5D vulnerable 1st seat opener?
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#5 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-April-18, 06:43

2 tricks? why?

5 opening looks like AKQJ109xx and out, or KQJ109xxxx
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#6 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2012-April-18, 06:48

 jules101, on 2012-April-18, 03:13, said:

You look like you have 2 cashing tricks, possibly more.

Will partner have none for her 5D vulnerable 1st seat opener?

Yes, fairly often. He either has the ace or he doesn't. He might have a king on the side, and might not. The best chance for the setting trick might be a club ruff, but he may not find the lead.
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#7 User is offline   dkham 

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Posted 2012-April-18, 09:22

I think we were making 5.
They probably won't make 5 and could be sacrificing a lot, so I'll double.
Too scared to bid 6.
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#8 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-April-18, 10:17

 Fluffy, on 2012-April-18, 02:30, said:

partner preempted and they guessed wrongly.


FYP (my last this week, I swear)

I don't know if we were making 5 because I'm not entirely sure what a r/w 5 call looks like. KQJ-9th of diamonds and 3-1-0 maybe?

Either way, the more shapely partner is the shorter his clubs and hearts are. -2 looks a lot more likely than making so I double.
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#9 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2012-April-18, 10:31

Cashing tricks? Club ruff on the third round of clubs? My opponents typically have shape when the pull a takeout double at the 5-level.
Of course, if partner's style is to have a 1-level opening bid for a r/w preempt, it's right to double, but if he could have shape with KQJ-9th of diamonds, I see no reason why are expected to beat this.
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#10 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2012-April-18, 10:34

 Phil, on 2012-April-18, 10:17, said:

FYP (my last this week, I swear)

I don't know if we were making 5 because I'm not entirely sure what a r/w 5 call looks like. KQJ-9th of diamonds and 3-1-0 maybe?

Either way, the more shapely partner is the shorter his clubs and hearts are. -2 looks a lot more likely than making so I double.


Yes this, I mean a lot of the time even when partner has nothing I miight score two clubs and a heart. Partner can easilyhave the diamond ace + something else. This could be 500 from nowhere. Also, if you dont double much here then you let them interfere for free. You want them to be afraid of the red card, even if that means you sometimes concede 5Mx=. I mean overtricks just seem impossible.
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#11 User is offline   quiddity 

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Posted 2012-April-18, 12:22

 jdeegan, on 2012-April-18, 03:06, said:

... a double is not at all insane, but esp. at IMP's it has relatively little to gain...


I think double has more to gain at IMPS. At matchpoints:
If both 5-level contracts are down then we're already beating the tables playing 5.
If 5 is making then we're probably not beating 5-X enough to make up for it; so we're already losing to those tables.
If 5 is making then double probably costs the entire board (especially if 5-X was going for 500).
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#12 User is offline   Statto 

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Posted 2012-April-18, 14:42

 quiddity, on 2012-April-18, 12:22, said:

I think double has more to gain at IMPS. At matchpoints:
If both 5-level contracts are down then we're already beating the tables playing 5.
If 5 is making then we're probably not beating 5-X enough to make up for it; so we're already losing to those tables.
If 5 is making then double probably costs the entire board (especially if 5-X was going for 500).

This makes sense if we think a fair number of other tables will be playing in 5, or for that matter 4. But if we think the majority will have the same auction, then it mostly comes down to beating those, and I think we probably will defeat 5, so in that case double is best. One thing I'm not doing is bidding 6, as it's certain to be doubled and go 1 or 2 off, and if only 1 off then probably 5 was down anyway.
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#13 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-April-18, 14:56

It's hard to say how often you will beat 5S. My estimate is that you won't beat it often enough for double to pay off, but of course it also depends on your 5D openings.
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#14 User is offline   quiddity 

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Posted 2012-April-18, 15:45

 Statto, on 2012-April-18, 14:42, said:

This makes sense if we think a fair number of other tables will be playing in 5, or for that matter 4. But if we think the majority will have the same auction, then it mostly comes down to beating those, and I think we probably will defeat 5, so in that case double is best. One thing I'm not doing is bidding 6, as it's certain to be doubled and go 1 or 2 off, and if only 1 off then probably 5 was down anyway.


Do you really think the majority of tables will have the same auction? It's possible of course, but all three bids are probably judgment calls. Some people will not open 5, some will not double, some will not pull. YMMV but I wouldn't bet on it.
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#15 User is offline   Statto 

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Posted 2012-April-18, 17:48

 quiddity, on 2012-April-18, 15:45, said:

Do you really think the majority of tables will have the same auction?

IDK, it depends on partner, opponents, the field, and the cards in the other hands. At the local club, I doubt it. But at a higher powered event, maybe.
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#16 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2012-April-20, 02:32

Pass. If this goes down it will probably be a good MP score. If it makes it might not be a zero. But it will certainly be a zero if you dbl and it makes.

Different at imps. There you stand to gain a lot more with dbl.
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#17 User is offline   AyunuS 

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Posted 2012-April-20, 03:54

I would easily double. You've got pretty decent stuff on both of the suits that are not the trump suit or what your partner has covered, so they'll probably have no good help suit at all. They are gambling and might crash really hard. If a lot of other players preempt and don't double you'll beat all of them, when people could be stuck guessing what to bid on a lot of other tables, too.
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#18 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-April-20, 08:38

I'm curious what a likely layout is where 5 is making, especially since some believe that making is happening often enough not to x.
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#19 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2012-April-20, 08:44

 Phil, on 2012-April-20, 08:38, said:

I'm curious what a likely layout is where 5 is making, especially since some believe that making is happening often enough not to x.

um.. singleton club in declarer's hand?

(I don't actually have an opinion whether double is right - it depends on your partner and your opponents too).
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#20 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2012-April-20, 09:03

 Phil, on 2012-April-20, 08:38, said:

I'm curious what a likely layout is where 5 is making, especially since some believe that making is happening often enough not to x.


Dummy 4414 with their side having AK AK A and QJ seems good enough if declarer has doubleton honnor in clubs
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