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1D p 3NT p
4C?
What does 4c mean in a 2/1 std. american context?
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Is there an expert consensus?
#1
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Posted 2012-March-16, 12:05
Aaron Jones Unit 557
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#2
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Posted 2012-March-16, 12:54
I don't recall seeing this sequence, but I would expect as close to unanimity as one is ever going to see.
4♣ is natural and forcing.
Responder is marked, in most methods, with at least a 4 card minor....I suppose he might be 3=3=2=5 with positional major holdings as well as whatever point count is shown in the partnership's methods for 3N.
Opener has at least the values to play 4N, and some reason to investigate a minor suit contract....usually a slam.
Btw, if opener wants to ask for keycards, a common approach is what I have seen described as Super Gerber....a jump to 5♣ over a 'to play' 3N, such as this one.
4♣ is natural and forcing.
Responder is marked, in most methods, with at least a 4 card minor....I suppose he might be 3=3=2=5 with positional major holdings as well as whatever point count is shown in the partnership's methods for 3N.
Opener has at least the values to play 4N, and some reason to investigate a minor suit contract....usually a slam.
Btw, if opener wants to ask for keycards, a common approach is what I have seen described as Super Gerber....a jump to 5♣ over a 'to play' 3N, such as this one.
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#3
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Posted 2012-March-16, 13:39
rduran1216, on 2012-March-16, 12:05, said:
1D p 3NT p
4C?
What does 4c mean in a 2/1 std. american context?
4C?
What does 4c mean in a 2/1 std. american context?
Mikeh is wrong as usual. This means opener has 4♦+5♣ and a very weak hand. It is % 100 sign off, opener doesnt want to play game. Responder must pass.
It also means you posted a question in the wrong forum, again. Seriously wtf is wrong with you man ? Anyone who thinks expert consensus is needed for this bid, needs to make a quick trip to N/B forums and stay there for about a decade before he posts on any other forum imo.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#4
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Posted 2012-March-16, 14:04
MrAce, on 2012-March-16, 13:39, said:
Mikeh is wrong as usual. This means opener has 4♦+5♣ and a very weak hand. It is % 100 sign off, opener doesnt want to play game. Responder must pass.
It also means you posted a question in the wrong forum, again. Seriously wtf is wrong with you man ? Anyone who thinks expert consensus is needed for this bid, needs to make a quick trip to N/B forums and stay there for about a decade before he posts on any other forum imo.
It also means you posted a question in the wrong forum, again. Seriously wtf is wrong with you man ? Anyone who thinks expert consensus is needed for this bid, needs to make a quick trip to N/B forums and stay there for about a decade before he posts on any other forum imo.
haha. There was an actual debate about this among the "local A players" just putting it to rest, thanks for the troll
Aaron Jones Unit 557
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#5
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Posted 2012-March-16, 14:41
MrAce, on 2012-March-16, 13:39, said:
Mikeh is wrong as usual. This means opener has 4♦+5♣ and a very weak hand. It is % 100 sign off, opener doesnt want to play game. Responder must pass.
It also means you posted a question in the wrong forum, again. Seriously wtf is wrong with you man ? Anyone who thinks expert consensus is needed for this bid, needs to make a quick trip to N/B forums and stay there for about a decade before he posts on any other forum imo.
It also means you posted a question in the wrong forum, again. Seriously wtf is wrong with you man ? Anyone who thinks expert consensus is needed for this bid, needs to make a quick trip to N/B forums and stay there for about a decade before he posts on any other forum imo.
And there was me thinking 4♣ had to be Gerber
Nat, F and suit setting for me so 4♦ over it would be kickback.
#6
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Posted 2012-March-16, 15:14
How can it be suit setting? Responder could easily have more diamonds than clubs, as does (presumably) opener. It just shows a big minor two suiter trying for slam.
Adam W. Meyerson
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#7
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Posted 2012-March-16, 15:17
rduran1216, on 2012-March-16, 14:04, said:
haha. There was an actual debate about this among the "local A players" just putting it to rest, thanks for the troll
[text deleted by adminstrator for TOS violation]
This post has been edited by inquiry: 2012-March-16, 21:10
Reason for edit: text deleted for TOS violation
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#8
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Posted 2012-March-16, 15:44
There was a debate here about that sequence a few years ago on the forums in case anyone wants to try to find it. I am fairly sure justin and fred weivghed in. I would look except am on cell.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."
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#9
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Posted 2012-March-16, 16:56
awm, on 2012-March-16, 15:14, said:
How can it be suit setting? Responder could easily have more diamonds than clubs, as does (presumably) opener. It just shows a big minor two suiter trying for slam.
OK, if you respond 3N with diamonds, I bid 2♦, 3N shows clubs as far as I'm concerned, pretty much guaranteed 3334.
#10
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Posted 2012-March-16, 17:21
rduran1216, on 2012-March-16, 12:05, said:
1D p 3NT p
4C?
What does 4c mean in a 2/1 std. american context?
4C?
What does 4c mean in a 2/1 std. american context?
I don't understand why Responder would make this "picture bid" ( hcp-wise ).
If Opener makes sound openings, 3NT = 13-15.
If Opener is one of those 10-11 hcp openers, then 3NT needs to be closer to 15-17.
If Responder does not have a 4 card Major, he could conserve bidding space with
an GF Inverted raise, 2D! ( say he was at worst: 3 3 4 3 ) or GF 2/1, 2C! (at worst: 3 3 3 4 ).
Is Mr Ace joking ? If Responder has a weak 4d/5c ... he just passes 3NT.
I agree w/mikeh : 4C is natural and forcing .
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall
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TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
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#11
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Posted 2012-March-16, 18:37
Agree with mikeh - slam try in minors. 4♦ would set diamonds as suit everything else is in the context of ♣ as trumps (cues, RKCB etc...).
Yu
Yu
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"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
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#12
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Posted 2012-March-16, 20:41
MrAce, on 2012-March-16, 13:39, said:
Mikeh is wrong as usual. This means opener has 4♦+5♣ and a very weak hand. It is % 100 sign off, opener doesnt want to play game. Responder must pass.
It also means you posted a question in the wrong forum, again. Seriously wtf is wrong with you man ? Anyone who thinks expert consensus is needed for this bid, needs to make a quick trip to N/B forums and stay there for about a decade before he posts on any other forum imo.
It also means you posted a question in the wrong forum, again. Seriously wtf is wrong with you man ? Anyone who thinks expert consensus is needed for this bid, needs to make a quick trip to N/B forums and stay there for about a decade before he posts on any other forum imo.
Honestly, I don't recall you being this belligerent before.
You're more than welcome to disagree with MikeH, but you didn't have to express yourself in that way. Although I'm sure that MikeH can take it.
What I think REALLY goes beyond the pale is insulting the OP. If you feel that this thread does not belong in Expert-class bridge, then quietly report it, and Ben will move it if he agrees.
There's no need to insult anyone publicly.
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#13
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Posted 2012-March-16, 21:04
Elianna, on 2012-March-16, 20:41, said:
Honestly, I don't recall you being this belligerent before.
You're more than welcome to disagree with MikeH, but you didn't have to express yourself in that way. Although I'm sure that MikeH can take it.
What I think REALLY goes beyond the pale is insulting the OP. If you feel that this thread does not belong in Expert-class bridge, then quietly report it, and Ben will move it if he agrees.
There's no need to insult anyone publicly.
You're more than welcome to disagree with MikeH, but you didn't have to express yourself in that way. Although I'm sure that MikeH can take it.
What I think REALLY goes beyond the pale is insulting the OP. If you feel that this thread does not belong in Expert-class bridge, then quietly report it, and Ben will move it if he agrees.
There's no need to insult anyone publicly.
I am absolutely sure that he meant this as a joke...at least as far as I am concerned.....and I hope it was intended to be a joke re the OP
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#14
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Posted 2012-March-16, 22:03
Timo is a shameless troll sometimes hahaha, well done sir.
Aaron Jones Unit 557
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Posted 2012-March-16, 22:10
mikeh, on 2012-March-16, 21:04, said:
I am absolutely sure that he meant this as a joke...at least as far as I am concerned.....and I hope it was intended to be a joke re the OP
The first one has to be a joke, the 2nd one was inapproriate even if a joke, as there is a zero tolerance issue involved on that one.
As to the question in the OP, it is slam try, 2nd suit. No it is not gerber, although many very good partnerships will play a jump to 5♣ (not a simple 4♣ bid as here) as "super gerber".
--Ben--
#16
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Posted 2012-March-16, 23:21
The first thread that I open in this new Expert forum and it is this.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
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#17
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Posted 2012-March-17, 01:45
mikeh, on 2012-March-16, 21:04, said:
I am absolutely sure that he meant this as a joke...at least as far as I am concerned.....and I hope it was intended to be a joke re the OP
Thanks for the defense Mike, i couldnt decide which one is more funny, this topic or the fact that there are people who can not see what you saw immediately....but whatever...
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
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Posted 2012-March-17, 03:54
Congratulations, we have new troll forums 
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Posted 2012-April-06, 20:36
clubs
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