[Lesh18]

Hi guys

1) I have been having a lot of troubles with scoring recently. I finally found out that rubber is suitable for a casual play, but the downside is that there are no bonus points for a game contract. And all ACBL teaching and Standard American bidding system coincide with making game contracts due to the bonus points. The thing that worries me even more is that ACBL How to play Bridge program teaches me to a rubber with using bonus points for a game contract.

I do not understand this at all. So should I use a rubber with bonus points for game contracts (3NT, 4S, 4H, 5D, 5C ...) or not?
Also, a rubber is said to be won after winning two games. On one website I found that a "game" in this sense is a 100 points limit, so you can win a game after two won deals (2S, 2D). On the other website I found that a "game" is a game contract won by one deal (3NT, 4S, 4H ...)

So how is it? And also, if bonus points for a game contract are taken into account, then going for a game contract is extremely convenient and this explicitly handicaps going for any lower bids (2NT, 4D, 3H ...). Does not the game lack variety then? This looks like professional darts players only trying to hit that very small 60 point space (triple 20). So Bridge players are trying to hit 3NT, 4S and 4H because other bids are either too small and valueless or not convenient enough for the effort needed. Please, clarify for me on this.

[S2000magic]

In duplicate bridge you get a 50-point bonus for any partscore bid and made, a 300-point bonus for any nonvulnerable game bid and made, and a 500-point bonus for any vulnerable game bid and made. If you bid and make a slam you get the appropriate game bonus plus the appropriate slam bonus. You also get a 50-point bonus for any doubled or redoubled contract made. All of these bonuses (boni?) are in addition to the trick score (undoubled, doubled, or redoubled, as appropriate).

Partscores do not carry over from one deal to the next; each deal is scored separately.

Thus, there is a great emphasis on reaching makable games and slams. Therefore, most bidding systems are designed to facilitate accurate game and slam bidding, often at the sacrifice of accurate partscore bidding.

[barmar]

It doesn't really reduce the variety of the game. You can't bid game contracts unless you have enough strength, so there are still plenty of partscore contracts. It also then requires you to learn bidding skills, to make good judgement about when you should be in game versus staying in a partscore.

Rubber and duplicate bridge are essentially the same game, just variations with somewhat different strategy. And even within duplicate bridge you have different forms: Matchpoint pairs, IMP teams, Board-a-Match teams, etc. These also require slightly different strategies. Most players don't change their overall system, it just affects some of the judgement calls and playing strategies.

[Statto]

Lesh18, on 2012-February-19, 20:32, said:

I finally found out that rubber is suitable for a casual play, but the downside is that there are no bonus points for a game contract.

This isn't strictly true, as there are the bonus points for a rubber (700 if you make 2 games without the opponents making any, 500 otherwise). Unless you already have a partscore, you still want to bid and make a game contract if you can. You might not get decent cards on the next deal, and the opponents may be able to bid and make a game, clearing your partscore. If you've already won a game, then bidding and making a game will now get you the rubber bonus.

However, the tactics of rubber bridge are more complex than duplicate bridge. So...

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And all ACBL teaching and Standard American bidding system coincide with making game contracts due to the bonus points. The thing that worries me even more is that ACBL How to play Bridge program teaches me to a rubber with using bonus points for a game contract.

I think what this means is that you score as for duplicate, do not carry partscores over into the next deal (but award the 50 bonus for a partscore), do not award a rubber bonus, but just keep track of whether each side has won a game in order to determine vulnerability.

Or you could just treat each deal as entirely separate, and flip a coin once for each pair to decide if they're vulnerable or not.

This would give tactics that are the same as duplicate with aggregate scoring (which is one form of duplicate scoring, though not that common).

[Zelandakh]

The first game of a rubber and also game when the opponents are vulnerable is worth somewhere around 300 points. This was a rule from the early days of bridge when rubber was the normal form of the game. Correspondingly a game when we are vulnerable is worth around 400 points and not the 700 that it scores. A part-score is actually worth much more than 50 points in rubber, typically between 100 and 150. it is only worth 50 in an unfinished rubber or in duplicate. The duplicate score table comes directly from these rubber bridge numbers but is simplified somewhat.

Game in rubber is 100 points scored below the line. This means only tricks bid and made count - 2♠ making 10 tricks is 60 points below the line (and 60 above); 2♠ making 7 tricks is 50 (not vul) or 100 (vul) above the line for the defenders. Scores below the line are accumulated within a given game, so scoring 2♠ (60) followed by 2♦ (40) will indeed be game if on consecutive deals. However if you make 2♠ and then the opponents make 3NT (100) then you have to start again with 0 below the line since we are now in a new game.

Different forms of scoring value games somewhat differently. IMPs is somewhat as you say, our primary goal in the bidding is to ascertain if our side can make a game or slam and then to bid it or, if not, stop as low as possible in a playable contract. Another big goal is to prevent the opponents from finding out easily when they can make a game or slam. There is another form of scoring, called Matchpoints or Pairs, which values part scores much more highly. In this form of scoring you score as much for 140 vs 110 as for 420 vs 170. It may be that this form of scoring appeals to you more than IMPs. That would be good news if it did since Pairs is the most common form of the game at local clubs.

Don't let me mislead you though. Games are important, even in Pairs. Most good games have such a point which makes it pay to be a little bolder than you otherwise might be. If bridge did not have a game bonus then the strategy would be to find a fit and stop as quickly as possible. The game bonus makes the game more exciting. You will see this in time, for the time being just accept it and learn to bid 3NT/4♥/4♠ when you have the values and shape for them.

[gordontd]

Zelandakh, on 2012-February-20, 04:04, said:

A part-score is actually worth much more than 50 points in rubber, typically between 100 and 150. it is only worth 50 in an unfinished rubber or in duplicate.

A part-score in an unfinished rubber is worth 100 points.

[gordontd]

Lesh18, on 2012-February-19, 20:32, said:

Hi guys

1) I have been having a lot of troubles with scoring recently. I finally found out that rubber is suitable for a casual play, but the downside is that there are no bonus points for a game contract. And all ACBL teaching and Standard American bidding system coincide with making game contracts due to the bonus points. The thing that worries me even more is that ACBL How to play Bridge program teaches me to a rubber with using bonus points for a game contract.

I suspect these are the instructions for playing Chicago, not rubber bridge.

[Lesh18]

Thank you. It is almost clear to me now.

2) You mentioned clearing points after the game. If I win 60 points in the first deal (2S), then my opponents win 3NT (100), the line is drawn and a new game is started. The first game was won by my opponents, so they are more likely to get overall rubber bonus for 2 won games. It is just a tremendous difference scoring 80 and 100 points in a game. I understand this.

But you mentiioned clearing the points after game - but after the rubber, all points are vertically summed up, including those in lost games, right? By clearing points you did not mean erasing them, but just having no effect towards the next game. Am I right?

3) If I win the first deal (1NT) I get 40 points. Then my opponents win the next deal (2D) scoring 40 points. And then I win the next deal (2S) scoring 60 more points. Now the score is 100-40. Does this mean I have won the game (and thus am more likely to win 2 games in a rubber and taking bonus points) even though I did not win any "game contracts"?

4) A rubber contains 3 games. I win the first game, I am vulnerable, my opponents are not. Then, my opponents win a game: Are we both vulnerable for the last game, or is it just the very recent one who won the game (my opponents)?
Are both partnerships vulnerable on the third game?

Thanks

[Vampyr]

Lesh18, on 2012-February-20, 05:56, said:

But you mentiioned clearing the points after game - but after the rubber, all points are vertically summed up, including those in lost games, right? By clearing points you did not mean erasing them, but just having no effect towards the next game. Am I right?

This is correct.

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3) If I win the first deal (1NT) I get 40 points. Then my opponents win the next deal (2D) scoring 40 points. And then I win the next deal (2S) scoring 60 more points. Now the score is 100-40. Does this mean I have won the game (and thus am more likely to win 2 games in a rubber and taking bonus points) even though I did not win any "game contracts"?

Yes

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4) A rubber contains 3 games. I win the first game, I am vulnerable, my opponents are not. Then, my opponents win a game: Are we both vulnerable for the last game, or is it just the very recent one who won the game (my opponents)?
Are both partnerships vulnerable on the third game?

Best to use "deal" or "hand" for 52 dealt cards to distinguish from the other meaning of "game". Anyway if you are vulnerable you stay that way until the end of the rubber.

[Zelandakh]

gordontd, on 2012-February-20, 04:08, said:

A part-score in an unfinished rubber is worth 100 points.

It seems I am somewhat out of date - this rule was changed in 1981!

[Lesh18]

5) When playing rubber, is it necessary to count Honor Points? I do not think it is very fair, much to the fact it is completely based on luck, and could be thus freely omitted. Does duplicate bridge include counting Honor Points?

[HighLow21]

Lesh18, on 2012-February-20, 13:22, said:

5) When playing rubber, is it necessary to count Honor Points? I do not think it is very fair, much to the fact it is completely based on luck, and could be thus freely omitted. Does duplicate bridge include counting Honor Points?

I've seen a few that do not include the 3 honor bonuses (100 honors, 150 honors, and 100 for Aces in NT). But many more do than do not.

Duplicate does not include these bonuses, unless there are some rare exceptions I am unaware of.

[CSGibson]

Lesh18, on 2012-February-20, 13:22, said:

5) When playing rubber, is it necessary to count Honor Points? I do not think it is very fair, much to the fact it is completely based on luck, and could be thus freely omitted. Does duplicate bridge include counting Honor Points?

Rubber bridge includes honor points, duplicate does not. The scoring of honor points does influence bidding decisions in rubber bridge. It is fair because both sides are playing by the same rules, and because both sides have an equal opportunity for honor points, but it is also based on luck - just like a lot of different aspects of card games.

[RunemPard]

Started playing Rubber Bridge on Pogo before playing duplicate...the scoring is technically the same. You are NV until you win a game. At this point you should be aggressive offensively and defensively in your bidding when the time calls for it.

The way I played it was that if you made over 100 points in the game(set of hands before 100 is reached), you won that game and became vulnerable. If you win the 2nd match and have more total points than the other team, you win the match.

NT=40-70-100...
H/S=30-60-90-120...
C/D=20-40-60-80-100...

Slam bonuses depend on vulnerability.
Do not remember seeing extra bonuses for bidding game when playing, but this could be a different type.

[gordontd]

HighLow21, on 2012-February-20, 15:21, said:

Duplicate does not include these bonuses, unless there are some rare exceptions I am unaware of.

There's an EBU event that includes honour bonuses (as well as other oddities).

[Vampyr]

HighLow21, on 2012-February-20, 15:21, said:

I've seen a few that do not include the 3 honor bonuses (100 honors, 150 honors, and 100 for Aces in NT).

I must confess that I have not seen an honour bonus in NTs for a very long time, but still I am astonished that this scoring change passed me by.

[Hanoi5]

There's a zone of HCP/distribution division where game should not be tried.

There's a big difference between Rubber and MP's and IMP's.

There are at least two kinds of rubber bridge: Chicago and old-time rubber bridge. I think Chicago is better for the people of today. You don't have to play till someone gets two games, you just play four hands, try all four vulnerabilities and change partners.

MP's/IMP's, i.e. Duplicate Bridge, can be more fun as you comapre your results and play against different people.

[barmar]

Hanoi5, on 2012-February-21, 15:40, said:

There are at least two kinds of rubber bridge: Chicago and old-time rubber bridge. I think Chicago is better for the people of today. You don't have to play till someone gets two games, you just play four hands, try all four vulnerabilities and change partners.

I think duplicate players tend to like Chicago because of the predictability of the vulnerabilities.