[rogerclee]

IMPs

KQTxxxx Axx void Q9x

1C-1S
2D-2S
2N-3S
4S-?

1C = 16+ art
1S = 8+, 5+S

The rest were natural.

[gwnn]

Just to make sure I understand the auction, all 4-level suit bids agree spades here right (by opener, instead of 4♠)? In that case I would probably make a chickenish pass.

[HighLow21]

the 2NT bid is somewhat encouraging. But opener is likely to have at least 7 of his 16+ points in diamonds. I would probably bid 4NT or whatever ace-asking system I was playing and settle in 5S if partner only has 2 aces (one of which is very likely to be in diamonds).

That said, all partner needs for slam to be cold is Ax KQx AJxxx KJ. This isn't much above a minimum and has 5 wasted points.

[Hanoi5]

We might have bid the same without the heart ace, why wouldn't we continue? I wonder if partner has a singleton honour in spade or if he can have just a singleton, though.

[Codo]

gwnn, on 2012-February-01, 03:31, said:

Just to make sure I understand the auction, all 4-level suit bids agree spades here right (by opener, instead of 4♠)? In that case I would probably make a chickenish pass.

Even without agreement, I would play partner for a kind of fit (A or xx at least) and minimum. I would pass and fear a hand like Ax,QJxx,AKQJx,xx opposite- which I had bid the way opener did...
If partner has Ax,Kxx,Akxxxx,Kx or better he should have bid 4 clubs, shouldn't he?

[han]

To me this is more about system evaluation than hand evaluation.

Would partner bid 2D on a 2-3-5-3 shape? (I would think so)

Would he bid 2NT with a 1-3-6-3 shape (I would think so)

So to me it sounds like partner has a minimum with a singleton spade. If this singleton is small then slam is quite against the odds. If it is an honor, it is still not clear that we'd want to be in slam (for example partner could have J Qxx AQxxxx AKx).

[mikeh]

han, on 2012-February-01, 07:23, said:

To me this is more about system evaluation than hand evaluation.

Would partner bid 2D on a 2-3-5-3 shape? (I would think so)

Would he bid 2NT with a 1-3-6-3 shape (I would think so)

So to me it sounds like partner has a minimum with a singleton spade. If this singleton is small then slam is quite against the odds. If it is an honor, it is still not clear that we'd want to be in slam (for example partner could have J Qxx AQxxxx AKx).

I would not expect him to be 2=3=5=3 very often....that looks to me like a 1N rebid, which has the advantage of immediately limiting size and shape, both of which can be useful when the first round of the bidding hasn't limited size at all, and opener hasn't limited shape either.

I agree, however, that 1=3=6=3 is eminently reasonable for 2N. BTW, if I did allow for 2=3=5=3 for 2♦, I think that that increases the odds of that shape for 2N....indeed, opener has to at some point show that he has a balanced/semi-balanced hand with the rounded suits stopped....someone has to bid notrump or else we never get to notrump.

At the decision point, the question is not only whether we might have slam...I think we can all construct layouts on which that is possible, but also whether we can safely get there while avoiding the disaster that is 5♠-1.

x KQx AKJxxx KJx

This is an ugly hand, but I don't see how he can avoid bidding as he did. And this definitely lacks 5 level safety. Heck, given that I have allowed him 17 points, this construction isn't even the weakest hand he could hold.

I pass

[Phil]

"no bid"

Partner's most likely pointed suit shape is 2♠ + 6♦.

Partner could have cued to say - love your spades. How would he bid with xx QJx AKJxxx AJ?

I disagree with Han's 2353 construction. This hand rebids 1N.

I also don't like Mike's 1363. This hand rebids 3N.

[han]

Erm, I didn't construct a 2353 hand, and I said I thought that hand rebid 1NT. I think mikeh's 1363 construction is a very reasonable hand for the bidding to date and shows well why there is no 5-level safety.

[r_prah]

I need a very good reason to bid over partner's discouraging 4♠, and I can't find one. I therefore pass.

[quiddity]

I tend to agree with Phil about Mike's construction; it's hard to construct a 1363 hand which doesn't rebid 3NT. Either he has a solid-looking diamond suit which might run or he has concentration in the side suits, and our ♥A makes it more likely that his side-suit honors look good for notrump.
It's easy to construct 2362 hands with two small spades which bid 4♠ - he's unlikely to make a stronger move without a trump honor or really good diamonds.

xx Kx AQxxxx AJx

That's a 14-count and slam (while not great) is not hopeless. I'll take my chances.

[gordontd]

HighLow21, on 2012-February-01, 03:49, said:

the 2NT bid is somewhat encouraging. But opener is likely to have at least 7 of his 16+ points in diamonds. I would probably bid 4NT or whatever ace-asking system I was playing and settle in 5S if partner only has 2 aces (one of which is very likely to be in diamonds).

That said, all partner needs for slam to be cold is Ax KQx AJxxx KJ. This isn't much above a minimum and has 5 wasted points.

So, bidding 4NT clearly isn't going to help you.

[rogerclee]

In retrospect this was not very interesting lol.

[quiddity]

rogerclee, on 2012-February-01, 15:39, said:

In retrospect this was not very interesting lol.

shrug - i'm still interested. Did opener have a stiff spade?
On this auction are people giving a courtesy cue with any sort of a fit for spades? It seems like a bad idea when opener is still unlimited.

[rogerclee]

Honestly I looked at the hand again this morning and thought "lol I can't believe I bid again".

I don't remember my partner's exact hand, but it featured the AKQ of diamonds, so the 5 level was not safe.

[whereagles]

I think have a good hand in context. Gonna try 6 now.