[han]

1D-(1H)-1S-(pass)
??

---

In "The smallest lie", many people claimed they wouldn't bid 1NT without a heart stopper, and one even wouldn't open. I have added one more heart, and an extra jack. Is there now anybody who wouldn't rebid 1NT?

(I know, the weak 1-notrumpers still open 1NT )

[helium]

yes i bid 1 nt now

[jtfanclub]

Hannie, on Oct 23 2004, 11:18 AM, said:

1D-(1H)-1S-(pass)
??

---

In "The smallest lie", many people claimed they wouldn't bid 1NT without a heart stopper, and one even wouldn't open. I have added one more heart, and an extra jack. Is there now anybody who wouldn't rebid 1NT?

(I know, the weak 1-notrumpers still open 1NT )

I consider any four card suit to be a half stop (it's fewer cards they can run,and if P also has a half stop it's not a suit that will generate many tricks).

So yes, I would rebid 1NT.

[pclayton]

The 4th heart makes NT worse!

It makes it less likely pard is covering the heart suit. 2♣ again.......

[HeartA]

pclayton, on Oct 23 2004, 03:03 PM, said:

The 4th heart makes NT worse!

It makes it less likely pard is covering the heart suit.  2♣ again.......

Agree. This time I would bid 2C. Fortunately, this kind situation doesn't happen often. I don't remember when it happened (if it ever happened) last time.

[EricK]

pclayton, on Oct 23 2004, 08:03 PM, said:

The 4th heart makes NT worse!

It makes it less likely pard is covering the heart suit. 2♣ again.......

But even without a ♥ stop you still might make 1NT. A lot might depend on whether dummy or RHO or both or niether gets squeezed on the run of the ♥.

Eric

[luke warm]

i'd have to bid 1nt (and yes, i'd have opened 1nt )... it's possible partner will bid 2s anyway

[whereagles]

1NT. Who cares about stoppers? You can bid 2/3H to ask for one anyway... The need for stoppers is very overrated and causes enormous bidding problems if one worries about it before describing one's hand.

The location of high cards of little use before you showed your shape and strenght.

[the hog]

2C. 1NT is ridiculous with 4 small H as it is extremely unlikely partner can provide a stopper. 1N on 3 small every day of the week. Not opening is even more ridiculous than the 1N bid.

[whereagles]

Funny how people think differently... what I find "ridiculous" is to bid this perfectly balanced hand with 4-3 in the minors like some 5-4.

[Free]

Still a clear 1NT rebid. I don't need a stop in ♥ since I'm in front of the ♥ bidder, and my partner will keep this in mind...

2♣ is crazy imo, even 2♠ is better.

[the hog]

So what now when lho cashes his 5 H tricks and switches to a C through partner's holding
Kxxxx
xx
Kxx
Qxx

Good contract guys! Hope you bid like this against me. especially when you are vulnerable. Even better if lho has 6H. Good luck with finding the DQ.

[jtfanclub]

The_Hog, on Oct 24 2004, 06:33 PM, said:

So what now when lho cashes his 5 H tricks and switches to a C through partner's holding
Kxxxx
xx
Kxx
Qxx

Good contract guys! Hope you bid like this against me. especially when you are vulnerable. Even better if lho has 6H. Good luck with finding the DQ.

You'd rather play in 2♣ with a 3-3 fit?

Give him
Kxxxx
xx
xxx
Axx

And that's exactly what's going to happen.

[the hog]

What chemical substances are you smoking? This hand is an automatic correction to 2D.

[jtfanclub]

The_Hog, on Oct 24 2004, 08:43 PM, said:

What chemical substances are you smoking? This hand is an automatic correction to 2D.

I disagree, but fine.

Give him
Kxxxx
Axx
xx
xxx

How about now?

[the hog]

JT. If I bid as if I had 5D and 4C and you hold 3-3 in the minors, are you seriously telling me that you "disagree" with giving preference to D rather than passing 2C?
Don't take this the wrong way, but I'd go to whoever taught you to bid and ask for a refund.

As for the other hand you posted, sure. However it is easy to make up hands to stress some point. Really, is this a likely hand to hold after a 1H overcall? Possible "Yes", likely "no".

[HeartA]

This discussion will go to nowhere. There is noway you can bid every hand into the best contract.

[Free]

Ron, aren't you one of these guys who ALWAYS open 1♦ with any 5-4 m distribution? So why is that correcting to 2♦ so obvious then? (Btw, I don't play it this way, just out of curiousity)

[jtfanclub]

I think the most likely hand for your partner to have is one that can make 1NT or 2 of a minor.

Quote

JT. If I bid as if I had 5D and 4C and you hold 3-3 in the minors, are you seriously telling me that you "disagree" with giving preference to D rather than passing 2C?

I disagree that's what you've shown. As a majority of posters here have stipulated, they bid 1D and then 2C with 5 clubs and 4 diamonds, as well as 5 diamonds and 4 clubs. There's no reason to think that partner has one over the other.

[the hog]

"Ron, aren't you one of these guys who ALWAYS open 1♦ with any 5-4 m distribution? "

Sure Free when I play Polish Club, but that is systemic with Polish C, as you well know. Playing PC responder can guess to pass, or guess to correct to 2D. That is one of the weaknesses of the system. This discussion does not involve PC though, so why bring it up?

Playing Standard I would do the same thing with 5 weak to weakish C and 4D; you do not bid this way with 5 rebiddable Cs, as you have no problems on the hand. (You MIGHT open 1D for theoretical reasons if you play Walsh style responses, but that is another story again.)

You see this is where forums like this are a bit of a problem. You need to read the posts people make and see in what context that post is made, not just half read them and focus on a phrase that is taken out of context with a totally different hand type in a totally different system. If you play Standard and have a rebiddable C suit, then it is pretty clear to open 1C and rebid 2C. But when opener opens 1D followed by 2C, responder always has to assume it is 5D and 4C and so it is automatic to give preference to D. The chances of 5D and 4C are greater than 5C and 4D. If you think this does not make sense, work through the logic. The reverse holding is an abberation in Standard bidding, though certainly possible .

Ron