[cherdano]

With a partner who is neither a bad bridge player, nor shy of discussion, you produce an auction with a lot of bidding all around:

Scoring: MP

P-(P)-1♦-(2♣)
2♥-(2♠)-3NT-(P)
P-(4♣)-4♦-(4♠)
?

---

I'll show later what action I chose, and what was right at the table. As always, reasoning for/against certain bids welcome.

Arend

[luke warm]

i think partner is 4252... it's our hand on power alone, so it boils down to whether or not we take our plus by x'ing or bid 5D... i can't tell which bidding is the vulnerable one, but i think i'd x anyway... if they're vulnerable, i know i would

[cherdano]

luke warm, on Oct 18 2004, 05:42 PM, said:

i think partner is 4252... it's our hand on power alone, so it boils down to whether or not we take our plus by x'ing or bid 5D... i can't tell which bidding is the vulnerable one, but i think i'd x anyway... if they're vulnerable, i know i would

Do you really think partner would rebid diamonds at the 4-level with only 5 of them? Anyway, you are South, you opened the bidding with a pass, and you are vulnerable, they are not.

Arend

[inquiry]

Give me a bid Red nose and some grossly oversized shoes.. here I come....

Before I vote, what is your opening bid of 3NT? Gambinng with or without stuff on the side... would your partner open 2♣ holding...

---

What was 2♥ (yes I see your hand, but what was your partner expecting). If 2♥ was forcing, your partner expects a lot better hand from you and didn't make a slam try, so that will affect what I do. Was 2♥ a negative free bid, in which case I have a fairly nice hand for partner giveng the bidding and we may well make 6♦.

Ok/ If 2♥ was forcing, I MUST bid 5♦ now. I can't pass and then pull partners double as he will take that as a forcing pass and we will get much too high.

If 2♥ was negative free bid, pass over 4♠ is probably not forcing. That is too bad... odd hand.. if pass is forcing when I show a good hand, here I can't use it, and if pass is not forcing if I showed a bad hand, then I want to use but can't. An evil paradox.

So if partner will not hand above 2♣, and that we are playing negative free bids, I am considering four equally flawed bids.
1) Double. I think we have 6 sure tricks (2H, 1D, 2C, 1S) and if we can find one more this will be a good result. Maybe partner will have two spade tricks?

2) 4NT - to play. If 5♦ makes, but 4NT may not make (7D, 1S, 1C) and when they win the heart ACE, they cash tons of spades.

3) 5D/6D - two practical bids. They were already willing to save over 3NT, they may save over 6D even when it is not making (bid it with confidence in your voice..lol). And 5♦ to protect your +600.. just hope you can't make a lot, lot more.

4) 5C - the clown bid... you asked for it, you got it. This is my bid if 2♥ was negative free bid and if pass is not forcing (if pass is forincg, I pass and bid 5D over partners double to invite six).... This is a typical last train bid, suggesting slam. If partner has the right monster... like S=Ax H-Ax D-AKJxxxx C-A, we acutally get to 7Diamonds this way... remove any ace (well not club one, partner has to have that one on the bidding), we will make 6D. remove two aces, and we rest in 5♦.

So my vote is... 5♦ if 2♥ was forcing, and 5♣ if it was negative free bid.. let me know if you play it forcing, an I will fill in my voite.... BTW, I think this hand is a fit jump 3♥ over 2♣ and you are not in this position.. you are done and partner can decide... putting the last guess back on them rather than on you...

Ben

[junyi_zhu]

cherdano, on Oct 18 2004, 05:33 PM, said:

With a partner who is neither a bad bridge player, nor shy of discussion,  you produce an auction with a lot of bidding all around:

Scoring: MP

P-(P)-1♦-(2♣)
2♥-(2♠)-3NT-(P)
P-(4♣)-4♦-(4♠)
?

---

I'll show later what action I chose, and what was right at the table. As always, reasoning for/against certain bids welcome.

Arend

2H is slightly an overbid, because your CQ doesn't look very good, but I don't mind 2H since your hearts are trunky. Now you should pass and let partner to decide. he can bid 4NT, 5D or double 4S. he looks like having 4-2-6-1 shape
and solid diamonds. SO if he has SAxxx Hxx DAKQxxx CK, he can probably bid 5D.If he hold SAKx Hxx DAKxxxxx CK, he'd probably bid 4NT, if he holds SKQxx Hx DAKQxxx CAx, he'd double 4S.

[cherdano]

To Ben: 2♥ was forcing. Maybe an overbid, but live with it. 3NT would be gambling, but undiscussed, so would probably show no outside kings or queens (which unfortunately seems to be standard).

Arend

[inquiry]

cherdano, on Oct 18 2004, 02:26 PM, said:

To Ben: 2♥ was forcing. Maybe an overbid, but live with it. 3NT would be gambling, but undiscussed, so would probably show no outside kings or queens (which unfortunately seems to be standard).

Arend

Ok.. put the clown suit back in the closet.. I am not inviting slam here. We will be lucky to make game. In fact, I bet 3NT would have have had problems... as if patner thought I actually HAD MY BID, he would have bid so much more with the hands I theorized for him.

So this is an easy one. If I pass (forcing), I will be stuck with what ever partner decides... defend or bid on. If he doubles, I stick, if he pulls to 5D, I stick. I suspect partner has something like S-AJ9 H-x D-KQTxxx C-Ax.. You can move a few cards around.. .maybe QJx of spades, and better diamonds, maybe club King instead of ACE.. But a source of tricks in diamonds and modest not great extra values. Now, 3NT might not make so first question, do I want to bid 5♦. The answer is no. Second question do I think they are going to make 4♠? Really, no. We proaably have 2♣ a ♠ and a ♥ trick, at least.

So there are wo schools of thought for this impossible situation.. PASS and hope partenr doubles to see if you ahd slam invite.. he will be expecting you to bid 5♦ or 5♣ because he knows about your short spade. Or double, as a warning not to bid on... I guess, I have changed my mind from above, and will bite the bullet and double, as I ceratinly don't want to invite here.

Ben

BTW, again, this is an insolvable problem because the last guess is forrced upon us.. I want to vote to change 2♥ to 3♥ fit jump, then I sit back and let partner be captain...

[Fluffy]

Partner probably has

♠Kxx
♥xx
♦AKJ10xxx
♣A

and obviouslywe belong to 5♦.

[flytoox]

Pd's 4D is a bit strange. We bid a game, 3N, so there should be a forcing pass here. What does pd have? I think pd rates to have singleton CA and 6card long diamond. i think 4n looks right, though i voted for 5d.

[luke warm]

Fluffy, on Oct 18 2004, 11:28 PM, said:

Partner probably has

♠Kxx
♥xx
♦AKJ10xxx
♣A

and obviouslywe belong to 5♦.

if this is so i expect partner might pull my double... a double isn't a command, tho i expect he'd think before bidding, the same as if i'd passed and *he* doubled

[pclayton]

If partner had anything approaching a defensive hand, he'd pass. They have a big double fit. Pard has long diamonds, and a few black cards.

I wouldn't be the least but surprised if both 4♠ and 5♦ are making. 5♦ seems pretty clear.

[pbleighton]

5D for me. It should probably make if partner has been telling the truth.

Peter

[HeartA]

5D is the only choice to me.

[luke warm]

on the premise that either 5d or x could be right (even if you shade the % toward 5d), how do you preserve both options? my thinking is, partner can pull a double, he can't pull 5d

[Free]

Dbl

[Chamaco]

Since, according to the poster, 2H was forcing, I bid a forcing pass.
It implies a fit diamonds in such situation, and a hand unsuited to double or too weak to bid 5 diamonds on its own despite having a fit.

Basically, a forcing pass here is equivalent to asking pard: "with which kind of hand did you bid 3NT?".

With a defensive hand he'll X, with an offensive hand (more likely from opponent's bid) he will bid.
Whatever he does, I'll pass.

[cherdano]

Ok, thanks for the replies. I doubled, because despite the 4 trumps I thought my offense potential is rather small (especially compared to what I promised with 2♥), and wanted to discourage partner from bidding 5♦. Well, it could have been wrong, but I was lucky to be right.

This was the full hand:

Scoring: MP

---

Of course, if ♣K had been ♣A, then 5♦ would be making, and +300 would not be a big consolation for the missed +600.

It would be an underbid to say that partner was mildly suprised when his ♦A was ruffed on trick one...

[jtfanclub]

cherdano, on Oct 19 2004, 07:29 PM, said:

Of course, if ♣K had been ♣A, then 5♦ would be making, and +300 would not be a big consolation for the missed +600.

If the ♣K had been the ♣A, would your partner really have bid 4♦ instead of passing? Assming a pass there is forcing, of course, but I don't see how it couldn't be. With 3 defensive tricks and 8 offensive ones across a hand that could force at the 2 level, do you really want to risk playing at 4♦?