[gwnn]

non-forcing, artificial 3NT bids in your system fromageGB:

2NT-3NT*

2NT-3♦
3♥-3NT*

2NT-3♣
3♦-3NT*

All of these are NF, artificial and looking for a fit. Maybe 4♣ instead of 3NT in these sequences could mean the slam interest version, but it is a little unnerving to play in 4NT when I would have had slam interest in a suit but no slam interest in NT.

[fromageGB]

benlessard, on 2011-June-03, 11:27, said:

One of my partner Normand is probably the author of what fromageGb play.

gwnn, on 2011-June-03, 11:36, said:

I don't think it's dumb to use 3NT like that. I think it's really cool that they never lose any major suit fit and opener always plays it. Obviously there are some tradeoffs, but it's a nice achievement. Even if it's not theirs.

Hey ! It's all my own work - invented specially for this thread after seeing the opening entries here. Let's call it "fromage response to 2NT". I was trying to get it to work without having a special bid for 53xx but kept failing, so had to incorporate that immediate 3NT. But with Gwnn's addition of 3♠ transfer to 3NT it seems good to me and my system-idea-tolerant partner, and we have now permanently adopted it. After some discussion we are trying follow-ons from the transfer to 3NT as showing 5 clubs, with 4♣ being 55 in the minors for pass or correct, as we have previously regretted not having such a bid, 4♦ as ace ask in clubs, and higher bids as showing the number of aces (of 6) in a slam invitational (or better)55 in the minors, so opener can play in 4NT, 5m or 6m accordingly.

We are handling Mm slammish or better 2 suiters by starting with the major transfer, and that works out OK in theory.

So far we have not had a 2NT open, but I have every confidence in its efficacy.

And thank you for your contribution, Gwnn, maybe we should call it the "fromage-gwnn response to 2NT" ?

[fromageGB]

gwnn, on 2011-June-03, 11:39, said:

non-forcing, artificial 3NT bids in your system fromageGB:

2NT-3NT*

2NT-3♦
3♥-3NT*

2NT-3♣
3♦-3NT*

All of these are NF, artificial and looking for a fit. Maybe 4♣ instead of 3NT in these sequences could mean the slam interest version, but it is a little unnerving to play in 4NT when I would have had slam interest in a suit but no slam interest in NT.

That would be an option. We have always played 2NT 4♣ as transfer to diamonds (with follow-ons) and our current plan is to play the last of the sequences you quote, with 4♣ in place of 3NT, as Gerber.

However, I have no compunction about playing in 4NT if there is no fit for a slammish hand, as I am restricting that to a solid combined 30 count. If we lowered that standard I am sure we would have to have a very solid long running suit(s) to compensate.

[benlessard]

Quote

Hey ! It's all my own work - invented specially for this thread after seeing the opening entries here.

Congrats but dont try to take a patent on it, otherwise im going to look at some of my older post on the forum

Quote

I was trying to get it to work without having a special bid for 53xx but kept failing,

trust me there is really no need, just use

3C-3H-4H as 53??

if partner got 5H your ok, if hes got 3S your ok and if hes 42(43)
everytime you are 53(41) or 53(50) 4H in the 43 will be slighty better than 3Nt. So only when 53(32) vs 24(43) you will be in an slighty inferior 4H rather than 3Nt. Keeping 2Nt--3Nt and 2Nt--3S free for something else is much much much more efficient that a nf 53(xx) not close at all. Also note that if you bid 3Nt with a 53(14) and partner got 2S4H he will pass while ill be playing in a slightly superior 4H.

If you want to simply raise to 4H you bid 3S and over 3Nt you bid 4H, it allow a free lead directing X but switching the response is worse. (3S asking for 5H or 5S/3H and 4H direct to play)

[fromageGB]

Thanks, Ben, I see your point. 2NT 3♣ 3♥ then
3♠= 3 or more hearts
3NT = denies 3 hearts, to play
4♥ = 5 spades and 3 hearts

2NT 3♣ 3♥ 4♥ is a better way to go when responder has a shortage, I agree. I am not too happy with it being 53(32), but it does free up the immediate 3NT bid.

[Vampyr]

FWIW, here is how I show minor suit interest (combined with a version of Puppet Stayman):

2NT-3S demands bid of 3NT, after which 4♣ and 4♦ are two-suited minor slam tries, 4♥ and 4♠ single-suited.

2NT-3NT is Baron; 4-card suits are bid up the line.

A minor suit can be shown after first bidding Stayman to show interest in the majors (we don't play that after 2NT-3♣, 3♦ showing 1+ 4-card major, 4♣ and 4♦ by responder show both majors.)

It comes up infrequently enough that we have never felt the need to do anything more complex.

[bluecalm]

2NT - ?
3C = stayman, promising 4cd major
3D/3H transfers, accept with all hands except super accepts, next other major is SI
3S = both minors, at least mild slam try
4C/4D = natural slam try

2NT - 3C
3D = no 4 card major
3H = 4 hearts no 4 spades
3S = 4 spades
3NT = both 4card majors (then 4C is puppet to 4D for natural slam try and 4D/4H are transfers either to play or to bid rkcb later)

2NT - 3C
3D - 3H/3S = smolen; with strong 5-5 bid 3H and if partner doesnt bid 3S then bid 4C/4D as slam tries with 5-5 majors or 4H with signoff; jumps to 5C are 5-4-4-0.

new major is slam try after both stayman and transfer; new minor is natural slam try after which 4NT is negative and other bids are cuebids (or kickbacks if you fancy to play this).

2NT - 3NT is natural and to play (of course, any system which doesn't contain this is weak imo) as 2NT - 3C - 3D/H/S - 3NT.

This is imo the best system after strong 2NT and it's also quite simple.
IF you want to be able to bid all 2 suiters and all 5-4-4-0's you could add that 4H/4S bids are 5-4-4-0 with major void and 5-4 minors but I don't think it will ever come up.

[bluecalm]

Quote

2NT-3S demands bid of 3NT, after which 4♣ and 4♦ are two-suited minor slam tries, 4♥ and 4♠ single-suited.

2NT-3NT is Baron; 4-card suits are bid up the line.

It doesn't work. The system may look pretty but they will have too many chances to double your 3♠ (or make interference from lack of this double) on normal deals when you want to play 3NT. Additional accuracy achieved from freeing 3NT bid for other uses will never make up for this.

[Vampyr]

bluecalm, on 2011-June-08, 18:20, said:

It doesn't work. The system may look pretty but they will have too many chances to double your 3♠ (or make interference from lack of this double) on normal deals when you want to play 3NT. Additional accuracy achieved from freeing 3NT bid for other uses will never make up for this.

Maybe, but we have this auction a lot, and I can't remember when they last doubled our 3♠ bid or made (an inference?) from the lack of a double. Of course this may be because we have usually bid Kokish by the time we have reached that point, and the opponents are reluctant to ask about the 6th bid (and the 5th alerted bid) in an auction where the only action they can be contemplating is a lead-directing double. If this is so there is a problem, but I do not know what to do about it.

[campboy]

Vampyr, on 2011-June-08, 20:37, said:

Maybe, but we have this auction a lot, and I can't remember when they last doubled our 3♠ bid or made (an inference?) from the lack of a double. Of course this may be because we have usually bid Kokish by the time we have reached that point, and the opponents are reluctant to ask about the 6th bid (and the 5th alerted bid) in an auction where the only action they can be contemplating is a lead-directing double. If this is so there is a problem, but I do not know what to do about it.

Well, if you're Kokishing the same player has already bid an artificial 2♠, so you don't lose much by giving your opponent a chance to recover from forgetting to double that