[Gerben42]

What do you think? Do the new security measures increase safety or just increase cost and annoyance with possibly bad results for US tourism?

Does your country want to install X-Ray machines? How do you feel about it?

My 2 cents: No extra security checks, and get rid of the plastic bags for fluids. This will save a lot of money which can be invested into better police work. If terrorists cannot even get a ticket, they won't blow up the plane.

Besides, I fear that the terrorists will simply change target to subways.

[andrei]

I found this very interesting:

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/...tle-bother?bn=1


it seems something similar is implemented at Boston airport:

http://securitysolutions.com/news/security...hostile_intent/

[Rain]

I read this recently.

http://lilysussman.wordpress.com/2009/11/3...come-to-israel/

However, traffic is an issue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_bus...ssenger_traffic

Compare with Israel's:

Quote

"The Israel Airport Authority (IAA) said Wednesday that August 2009 was the busiest month ever recorded, with 1,462,225 passengers traveling through Ben Gurion International Airport, on 9,906 domestic and international flights."

Which is say, at most 18 million total for 2009.

Can't expect cities to have the means to do what a sovereign nation does for 3x more people?

[akhare]

Rain, on Dec 30 2009, 04:34 PM, said:

I read this recently.

http://lilysussman.wordpress.com/2009/11/3...come-to-israel/

Wow -- I went through a similar procedure, but luckily my laptop escaped with just a swab .

The thoroughness is very impressive, especially if flying El Al -- multiple rounds of questioning (including cross questioning), full body frisking, manual examination of every carry on item.

Of course, scalability is a another question...

[Mbodell]

The airplane situation is insane. Way more people die due to any of drunk driving, lack of US health care, being struck by lightening, etc. than plane based terror attacks. All the minutes and hours and lifetimes of time (spread across many people) that is wasted in stupid "security" checks are such an inefficient waste of time.

I was flying from YVR-SFO on Saturday and I had to wait 2 hours in Vancouver at the security line as every single person traveling to the US had to both go through the metal detecting machine *and* get patted down by hand (including under the belt, all limbs, the soles of the feet, chest and back, under hair, etc.) and all carry on luggage had to go through both the x-ray machine and be individually unpacked and repacked by the security agents. Then on the plane people were not allowed to stand up during the last hour of the flight, nor was their drink service during this time, nor were people allowed blankets or pillows or jackets on their laps or covering the front of the body. It was a cold flight and an unpleasant final hour.

Stop with the liquid bans, the taking off of shoes, and the new craziness and approach the situation more rationally please!

[kenrexford]

I drive a lot more.

[Winstonm]

Wait a second - I thought the whole idea of McChrystal's McSurge was so we won't have to fight them over here.

[Lobowolf]

Mbodell, on Dec 30 2009, 07:12 PM, said:

The airplane situation is insane. Way more people die due to any of drunk driving, lack of US health care, being struck by lightening, etc. than plane based terror attacks. All the minutes and hours and lifetimes of time (spread across many people) that is wasted in stupid "security" checks are such an inefficient waste of time.

I was flying from YVR-SFO on Saturday and I had to wait 2 hours in Vancouver at the security line as every single person traveling to the US had to both go through the metal detecting machine *and* get patted down by hand (including under the belt, all limbs, the soles of the feet, chest and back, under hair, etc.) and all carry on luggage had to go through both the x-ray machine and be individually unpacked and repacked by the security agents. Then on the plane people were not allowed to stand up during the last hour of the flight, nor was their drink service during this time, nor were people allowed blankets or pillows or jackets on their laps or covering the front of the body. It was a cold flight and an unpleasant final hour.

Stop with the liquid bans, the taking off of shoes, and the new craziness and approach the situation more rationally please!

That's a bit like saying that because banks are robbed so rarely, the armed guards and security cameras are obviously a waste of money.

[jdonn]

I don't know about cost or annoyance, but it's so dumb IMO to complain that this is an invasion of privacy. They can potentially see a vague discolored outline of my shape, just like if they saw my shadow. Who cares? It's not a photograph taken through my clothes.

[Lobowolf]

FWIW, apparently in the USA, more people died on 9-11 than by being struck by lightning in the 30 years through 2008 combined (under 60 a year). And a good chunk of the lightning deaths are easily preventable. Here's a good tip to cut down your odds, for instance - don't play golf during a storm.

[blackshoe]

I think that, should I ever decide to fly again (highly unlikely) I'll just show up naked, and without luggage. At least that'll eliminate some of the hassle.

[Mbodell]

Lobowolf, on Dec 30 2009, 04:32 PM, said:

Mbodell, on Dec 30 2009, 07:12 PM, said:

The airplane situation is insane.  Way more people die due to any of drunk driving, lack of US health care, being struck by lightening, etc. than plane based terror attacks.  All the minutes and hours and lifetimes of time (spread across many people) that is wasted in stupid "security" checks are such an inefficient waste of time.

I was flying from YVR-SFO on Saturday and I had to wait 2 hours in Vancouver at the security line as every single person traveling to the US had to both go through the metal detecting machine *and* get patted down by hand (including under the belt, all limbs, the soles of the feet, chest and back, under hair, etc.) and all carry on luggage had to go through both the x-ray machine and be individually unpacked and repacked by the security agents.  Then on the plane people were not allowed to stand up during the last hour of the flight, nor was their drink service during this time, nor were people allowed blankets or pillows or jackets on their laps or covering the front of the body.  It was a cold flight and an unpleasant final hour.

Stop with the liquid bans, the taking off of shoes, and the new craziness and approach the situation more rationally please!

That's a bit like saying that because banks are robbed so rarely, the armed guards and security cameras are obviously a waste of money.

Well I'm more reacting that people are saying we should spend billions more (18-20 billion was the number I heard on NPR) over the next year to improve airline safety and the TSA. I'm saying don't do that, spend it on something else.

[cherdanno]

Lobowolf, on Dec 30 2009, 07:32 PM, said:

Mbodell, on Dec 30 2009, 07:12 PM, said:

The airplane situation is insane.  Way more people die due to any of drunk driving, lack of US health care, being struck by lightening, etc. than plane based terror attacks.  All the minutes and hours and lifetimes of time (spread across many people) that is wasted in stupid "security" checks are such an inefficient waste of time.

I was flying from YVR-SFO on Saturday and I had to wait 2 hours in Vancouver at the security line as every single person traveling to the US had to both go through the metal detecting machine *and* get patted down by hand (including under the belt, all limbs, the soles of the feet, chest and back, under hair, etc.) and all carry on luggage had to go through both the x-ray machine and be individually unpacked and repacked by the security agents.  Then on the plane people were not allowed to stand up during the last hour of the flight, nor was their drink service during this time, nor were people allowed blankets or pillows or jackets on their laps or covering the front of the body.  It was a cold flight and an unpleasant final hour.

Stop with the liquid bans, the taking off of shoes, and the new craziness and approach the situation more rationally please!

That's a bit like saying that because banks are robbed so rarely, the armed guards and security cameras are obviously a waste of money.

No, it's like saying it is a waste of money to pay armed guards covering the East side entrance when you are leaving the West side entrance open.

(Why on earth would a terrorist, knowing the new regulations, wait until the last hour to try to detonate a bomb?)

[cherdanno]

Btw, I have a better plan. Offer free drinks to everyone. Surely the terrorist, being a devote Muslim and needing all his concentration, will refuse.

[matmat]

this makes me wish even more that I had the ability to sleep on planes.

[y66]

I think most of the security measures are ineffective and counter productive and increasingly annoying. We need credible security forces that people take deadly seriously, especially at the source, but I don't think you get much real security from scanning machines, rent-a-cops and crazy rules.

[hotShot]

As long as you can buy anything you need to destroy a plane midair in the duty free shop, all those security checks are far from effective.

[kenberg]

cherdanno, on Dec 31 2009, 02:07 AM, said:

Btw, I have a better plan. Offer free drinks to everyone. Surely the terrorist, being a devote Muslim and needing all his concentration, will refuse.

If Homeland Security is giving cash prizes for innovative ideas, I certainly nominate this one.

[onoway]

I was sent this this morning, sorry for the long post but not sure where it came from to give the link
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

As all of North America now seems to be focused on the issue of one terrorist wearing a pair of exploding underwear, I might as well comment on this latest bit of security theater that seems to have transfixed the nation. Pictures of the exploding underwear "bomb" have now surfaced on the 'net. You can view them at ABC News: http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/north...

Here is exactly what the text on this page says (I'm not making this up, this is seriously true): (warning: Some of the content here is graphic, read at your own risk...)

"The first photo, to the left, shows the slightly charred and singed underpants with the bomb packet still in place."

I don't know what you think, but if you did an underwear search of all the passengers flying these days, you'd probably find half of them are wearing underwear that's slightly charred and singed with the "bomb packet" still in place.

The gastrointestinal health of the general population is atrocious! And by the time you add in some airport food and in-flight processed food snacks, pretty much everyone on the airplane is setting off a little bomb packet by the time they get off the plane. (Why do you think everybody can't wait to get off in such a hurry?)

Processed food has turned us all into in-flight terrorists!

Frankly, I'm not sure what's more of a threat to public health: Lousy airport security or the digestive effects of in-flight meals. But they both have one thing in common: Underwear...

How to explode your rectum without harming anyone nearby
The ABC News story mentioned above goes on to state that this terrorist's underwear was packing 80 grams of an explosive powder called PETN, which government tests have revealed can blow a (tiny) hole in the wall of an airplane.

This is all brilliant stuff, of course. Truly brilliant. This whole idea that underwear explosives might destroy an airplane all makes sense except for the fact that the terrorist's butt cheeks are in the way!

Had this explosive packet actually been set off, I can tell you exactly what would have happened: There would have been a really loud pop, immediately followed by in-flight pieces of exploding butt cheeks.

I'm not trying to be funny here. This is a true description of the way bombs work. They explode outward, destroying whatever is closest to them first. And this guy actually had this bomb wedged in between his butt cheeks. A sort of "wedgie bomb", if you will. A wedgie with a bang.

This is a serious discussion. There was an attempted assassination of a Middle Eastern prince that happened not long ago. It was even reported in the press. The assassin had somehow managed to shove explosives into his rectum -- I swear I'm not making this up -- and waltzed right through security with it. He then shuffled toward his target, fired off the bomb and subsequently blew his butt cheeks all over the room... without harming anyone else.

Brilliant, huh?

Think about it. In World War II films, you know how you always see brave soldiers throwing themselves on an enemy grenade to protect their squad buddies? That actually works because whoever is on top of the grenade absorbs the explosion. It's basic physics.

In the case of super wedgie terrorist, he's sitting right on top of the explosive powder! Who do you think is going to absorb the full force of the explosion? It's going to be the guy sitting on it.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
the seat cushions would likely be a bit of a mess as well...maybe they should just make everyone ship EVERYTHING and provide clothes to all passengers like muumuus and sandals to wear during the flight sort of the way hospitals have hospital gowns and slippers..might speed things up at the airport ..could give them out when you show your ticket and you get your boarding pass when you give them your shoes and clothes . Combined with a complimentary drink when you gave them your clothes that should do it

[gwnn]

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/northwest-ai...tory?id=9436297 is the link that works