[phil_20686]

Scoring: MP

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RHO opens 4h first in at all red. Will you bid 4s here? Would you bid at favourable? How would a change of scoring to teams affect your choice?

[OleBerg]

When in doubt, always bid 4♠ over 4♥.

[marcD]

Pass . 4♠ is brilliant but my partners cannot take a joke . 4♠ could possibly work at MP , would even less consider it at IMP

[Fluffy]

I'd bid 4♠ if I knew partner wouldn't act afterwards, but being raised to 6 its so ugly.

So put me on balancing sit, or opposite passed hand partner and I am trying 4♠, on a live seat I won't.

[655321]

4♠.

IMPs or MP, but losing a double game swing is only a bottom at MPs, it is more expensive at IMPs.

[Codo]

I pass, yes a double game swing is bad, but so is a phantom sacrifice and a failing slam.

[gnasher]

Apart from the risks already mentioned, if we bid 4♠ there's a fair chance of losing 850 in 5♥x. Or are we going to bid 5♠ too?

[benlessard]

4S is simply a beginner bid. Partner is rarely going to pass if we bid 4S. Hes favorite to have enough values to go on.

Usually when a bid show 5 to 20 pts and isnt forcing, its a bad bid.

[phil_20686]

benlessard, on Sep 3 2009, 06:33 AM, said:

4S is simply a beginner bid.

I'm pretty sure this basically isnt true.

Does it not feel to you guys that 4h is almost certainly cold? There are 25 HCP or so between teh two hands still to bid, given that most experts open at the one level with 12 HCP even in very aggressive hands. It feels to me that 4h is cold maybe 9/10 times? Is this too optimistic?

As for being raised. I felt that partner is quite unlikely to raise me without 3 trumps, in which case this hand has similar playing strength to say

AKxxxx
x
Qxxx
xx

I'm pretty sure most ppl would bid 4s with this hand? Besides, surely partner will be relatively conservative here when he has heart length? If i play in 5s-1 then this might still be cheap vs 4h, and at worst i lose 5 playing imps. Of course this is a disaster playing MP, and this was the principle worry, and going -1 vs -1 of course. It feels like whenever the HCP divide evenly between the two hands bidding wins. Whenever partner is weaker and has a few spades bidding probably wins. When partner is stronger hand has spades there is danger, but 15 HCP outside of hearts might well vive slam decent play?

Axx
xxxx
AJx
AQx

or

Axx
xxxx
KJx
AKx

7 spades 2d 1d ruff and just needs club finess. What are you expexting partner to raise to the 5 level on here? Surely no one is driving slam here on less than 15?

Am i being too conservative on what you should raise to slam on?

In short, it feels to me like a phantom is fairly unlikely, and that when partner raises to slam this hand actually has quite a lot of playing strength with its 7-4 distribution. Further, when partner raises it seems like this is a far bigger worry at MP than imps, when -1 vs-1 is unlikely to be a worry, since partner is fairly unlikely to be able to make a t/o double.

[mcphee]

Bidding 4S is one VERY HUGE position to take. This is simply not the hand partner is going to expect, nor is it even close to what you should hold. In the balancing position this is a different issue, directly this is placing the family jewels on the train tracks! And not only yours, partners' as well.

If you are looking for a newspaper hand bid 4S, the genius bid. I bet we see your name in the obits!

[cherdanno]

4♠, we do have 7 of them.

[MarkDean]

benlessard, on Sep 3 2009, 04:33 AM, said:

4S is simply a beginner bid. Partner is rarely going to pass if we bid 4S. Hes favorite to have enough values to go on.

Usually when a bid show 5 to 20 pts and isnt forcing, its a bad bid.

Mark me down as a beginner.

[OleBerg]

MarkDean, on Sep 3 2009, 04:21 PM, said:

benlessard, on Sep 3 2009, 04:33 AM, said:

4S is simply a beginner bid. Partner is rarely going to pass if we bid 4S. Hes favorite to have enough values to go on.

Usually when a bid show 5 to 20 pts and isnt forcing, its a bad bid.

Mark me down as a beginner.

Not as a Dean?

[andy_h]

Pass. But at favourable hmm..

[Trinidad]

OleBerg, on Sep 3 2009, 03:48 AM, said:

When in doubt, always bid 4♠ over 4♥.

Fortunately I am not in doubt. I will certainly pass.

Rik

[olliebol]

if youre fixed stay fixed pass

[the hog]

Obvious pass. It is not that I don't want to bid 4S, I do, however I am concerned that partner will think I actually had my bid, when i have nothing like a 4S bid.
I totally agree with Ben Lessard.

Phil, I would drive to 7 opposite a 4S bid if I held -
Axx
xxxx
AJx
AQx

As I think most players would.

[MFA]

4♠. Ugly, but with 7-0 in the majors I have to put on my bidding shoes in this sequence.

[OleBerg]

The_Hog, on Sep 4 2009, 02:36 AM, said:

Obvious pass. It is not that I don't want to bid 4S, I do, however I am concerned that partner will think I actually had my bid, when i have nothing like a 4S bid.
I totally agree with Ben Lessard.

Phil, I would drive to 7 opposite a 4S bid if I held -
Axx
xxxx
AJx
AQx

As I think most players would.

Sure.

If partner holds:

♠ KQJ10xxx
♥ x
♦ Kxx
♣ Kx

He is simply a silly overbidder.

[655321]

The_Hog, on Sep 3 2009, 07:36 PM, said:

As I think most players would.

Well, that turns out not to be the case.